PMs change and lol we're all gonna die (but brexit will never end)

Xxp Lol we're not BBC interviewers, we can keep more than one line of reasoning in our heads. I think the post makes connections I haven't seen elsewhere.

I also think the notion of brexit as existential is both true and not true at the same time. The biggest brexit supporters I've met were white former EastEnders living in Essex/Kent who could talk about taking back control in a room full of Bengali and European coworkers without seeming to experience any dissonance, something I found quite strange. These were people who got invited to Bengali households for Eid and were very comfortable with many aspects of multiculturalism and indeed closer to it and friendlier with it than the "legitimate concerns" brigade. Nevertheless there was an idea that "we need to control our borders" that I have no doubt was essentially racist but seemingly could exist alongside what seemed to be at least a coherent and genuine embrace of multicultural values more encompassing than the average fbpe er.*

*To clarify, I don't think leaving the EU actually gets rid of the non white people, but I recognise that these ideas seem to have been strongly linked in a variety of ways including the heads of an archetypal leave voter.

discus
https://averypublicsociologist.blogspot.com/2019/10/saying-no-to-boris-johnsons-election.html?m=1

I’m not sure people having individual Asian friends prevents them from being hostile to Asian/Muslim people in Britain as a concept, you know, the whole “oh YOU’RE ok but the rest of them need to go back”.

xp broadly agree with that piece, tho every position is still full of unknowns and at best a calculated gamble. also that piece ignores the fractures within the PLP which certainly isn't a tactically coherent unit

Damn, gyac and LBI beat me to it lol.

I largely agree with that piece (and this piece arguing the same thing but coming from a different angle). I do foresee messiness for Labour in any scenario, GE or no GE, but that's not something they're not used to tbh. Keeping BJ in limbo is the best bet imo.

I noticed when Kate Andrews began talking up the benefits of immigration on Question Time the audience went very quiet. (xps)

In many areas in the North support for Brexit is very high exactly from children of immigrants! Northern urban UKIP candidates around 2015 weren't particularly white - which doesn't mean they weren't anti-immigration themselves and there might have been some PR calculations going on too, sure. But theme of "people far away making decisions for us, telling us what to do, how to live our lives, when they know jack shit" is the strongest sentiment, just not one necessarily concisely expressed

The thing with immigration/benefits-concerned people is that it’s never the people they know personally/their friends from those groups who constitute a problem for them, it’s people at a remove who can be caricatured. More than once, I’ve had to point out that those other immigrants or benefits claimants probably also have friends or neighbours telling them ‘oh we don’t mean YOU, you’re all right’ too.

Will people ever stop making eyes at the king across the water?

I truly believe the day David Miliband left British politics it all started to unravel. https://t.co/ipJBEwZY7X

— James Corden (@JKCorden) October 25, 2019

James Corden and David Miliband. Delightful.

In many areas in the North support for Brexit is very high exactly from children of immigrants!

You, of course, have proof of this - Morrissey doesn't count. There is another factor, which is the idea that reducing EU immigration allows more immigration from (especially) the Indian subcontinent - but I've only met one person who expressed this view and voted Brexit accordingly.

https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/860b94c9bbbd88277f08aa57c692df5706c7723f/0_0_808_600/master/808.jpg?width=620&quality=85&auto=format&fit=max&s=4406a118ab78a210640b097efae92496

smdh

WTF?

My friend’s elderly Hindu Indian parents live in Lincoln and voted Brexit for pretty much those reasons (also Brexit was the position of most people in their friendship group).

From January 2016:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/01/british-asians-views-eu-referendum-figures-brexit

“At the moment I am nowhere. I have been pushed away by the leave campaign because of the issue around migration and racism,” he says.

But spend more than five minutes with the Labour MP and it is clear he still has more affinity with Brexit. He tells horror stories of eastern European immigrants murdering Pakistani families and Asian women having their gold bangles torn from their arms by Romanian gangs.

Mahmood says he represents those people on the ground who will feel the direct impact of increased European migration.

He is fearful of the influx of poor immigrants into “ghettoised” communities that he says are already struggling with a lack of housing and resources. He says: “We don’t want an open house. We don’t do criminal checks on them. We can’t stop certain types of people coming in.”

He also claims eastern Europeans exploit the UK markets and send “benefit monies” back home to their large families.

See also: https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/uk-public-opinion-toward-immigration-overall-attitudes-and-level-of-concern/

Figure 7 is quite interesting in this regard.

James Corden and David Miliband. Delightful.

/In many areas in the North support for Brexit is very high exactly from children of immigrants!/

You, of course, have proof of this - Morrissey doesn't count. There is another factor, which is the idea that reducing EU immigration allows more immigration from (especially) the Indian subcontinent - but I've only met one person who expressed this view and voted Brexit accordingly.

Ms Patel, who announced a “Save the British Curry Day” to take place in June, was backed by Enam Ali MBE, the founder of the British Curry Awards and Spice Magazine, and Pasha Khandaker, the president of the Bangladesh Caterers Association.

Tory MP Paul Scully, chairman of the all-party parliamentary group for the British Curry Catering Industry, raised the issue in Parliament last year.

He added today: “It cannot be right that skilled Bangladeshi chefs should be penalised.”

Corbyn’s on This Morning right now with a very positive story about helping make a very expensive cystic fibrosis drug available to NHS patients; they’re bringing him back for election questions apres le break.

Sadness in Patel's smug smirking face as usual there.

JRM and others (usually the more Colonial Brexiters who do believe in Globalism as long as the UK is at the top or near-top of that tree, see also Hannan) also suggested that 'we simply replace EU fruit pickers with ones from further afield'. I'm paraphrasing but yes this is definitely what a majority of Leave voters would have no problem with for sure for sure.

EU won't decide on an extension until after the GE vote on Monday which the opposition will reject until they know the timetable of the extension

Oh ffs I have just seen that David “extraordinary rendition” Miliband gave a lecture, which is presumably the spur for the Corden fantasising, about liberal fucking values!

The liberal idea, with a small l, is that all human beings have rights, by virtue of their humanity, that need to be protected; that there must be defences against the abuse of power because power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely; that with rights come responsibilities, that need to be exercised in ways large and small, to sustain a functioning society; and that while everyone is entitled to their own opinion, they are not entitled to their own facts, so political debate and decision-making should proceed in a deliberative form from those facts.

imagine you were working in Dave's office doing his tweets for him and having to resist the temptation to call this an 'extraordinary rendition' https://t.co/bMn7ygtwb2

— XR Phrenologists (@wariotifo) July 11, 2018

You, of course, have proof of this - Morrissey doesn't count.

:(

I see Banana Mili as such a colossal numpt that I thought Corden was posting with some rare good sarcasm there

pretty sure DMil extended the notion of "the liberal idea" there into standard centrist technocrat fantasyland and rmfe at any politician in 2019 doing the "power corrupts" bit

looking forward to the government creating Oftruth, the regulatory body for facts

Richard Madeley asked Corbyn how it would work having a chancellor who wants the downfall of capitalism in Downing St.

Just grand, Richard, lad, just grand.

pretty sure there's been loads of them already

I was trying to make a slightly different point from the one I ended up making. I definitely don't want to let people off the hook for their own racism. I guess what I meant was surprise at the schism in individuals that mean they can be both very comfortable in multicultural communities (beyond 'having friends who are x,' I was trying to describe a much more enmeshed cultural milieu that stretches to certain cultural norms) and still maintain this distinct 'preserving England' intolerance without any seeming sense of dissonance between the two.

_Richard Madeley asked Corbyn how it would work having a chancellor who wants the downfall of capitalism in Downing St._


Just grand, Richard, lad, just grand.

is corbyn a marxist?https://t.co/PwoPmsAcl2 pic.twitter.com/Dygm9ZezwK

— acid womble (@acidwomble) February 20, 2019

pretty sure there's been loads of them already

Stafford Cripps, for sure.

when they sent him over to the Soviet Union it was thought they'd prefer to deal with a card carrying commie/lefty diplomat, but according to Maisky they hated dealing with lefty brits and would have preferred they sent a Tory.

it's perfectly possible to be pro immigration while also being anti fom from 27 other predominantly white countries.
xp

xxp
I think by the time Cripps was in office during reconstruction he'd fallen out with communism.

He'd fallen out with Soviet communism. Though, of course, he was a religious nut, which didn't sit too well wiht being a Marxist.

I would definite say he was much more of a Marxist than John McDonnell, nonetheless!

he was definitely an oddball, he believed in the absolute vitality of eating raw, uncooked vegetables

he was kicked out of Labour in the 30's for his devout Communism, so he's got McD licked there!

Cripps for sure but also part of my point was that there've been all kinds of right wing Chancellors who have wittingly or unwittingly contributed to policies likely to undermine (free market) capitalism in various ways

but obv the media rarely get the vapours over that shit

I suspected that's what you meant.

are Gideon and goth-disco Phil in that category?

Hammond seems too managerial and Gideon's austerity strengthened the system in the short term at least imo, Lamont might be a better recent example but it's a more complex argument than I could make right now, was more exercised by the simple stupidity of Madeley's question

Simple stupidity is what Richard Madeley does.

i know it's been said a million times before but he really is the real-life alan partridge

feels like he's been there forever ffs

his eldritch powers of mediocrity allow him to exist outside our perception of spacetime iirc

otm. xxp remember him coming to the show dressed as ali g?

i didn’t until you reminded me and now i’m reliving the horror all over again

https://youtu.be/03SiNNYJu3g Ali G too relevant these days

I can remember thinking actual murderous thoughts when just about every youngish person I worked with were doing hilarious Borat voices at work, and this period seemed to go on forever as well.