I think there's truth in all perspectives here
― imago, Thursday, 24 October 2019 11:10 (four years ago) link
Don't you 'both sides' me! Entire genres are absent from these polls, fuck giving more space to the same old hegemonic shit everyone already knows about.
― pomenitul, Thursday, 24 October 2019 11:14 (four years ago) link
There is indeed too much indie in the albums poll. But the corrective certainly isn't more chart pop.
I’ll both sides you as much as like!Matt has an excellent point but the poptimist post is more like “the wrong people are posting here”.
― gyac, Thursday, 24 October 2019 11:15 (four years ago) link
No jazz, no so-called 'world' music, no classical, no 'experimental', etc., and the real cause for dismay is the supposed lack of pop.
― pomenitul, Thursday, 24 October 2019 11:16 (four years ago) link
And not just any pop. English-language pop.
― pomenitul, Thursday, 24 October 2019 11:17 (four years ago) link
you must not know about me
― breastcrawl, Thursday, 24 October 2019 11:19 (four years ago) link
I don't, no. Which is fine – relative anonymity is the great equalizer.
― pomenitul, Thursday, 24 October 2019 11:21 (four years ago) link
Pop made it to #47, what more do you want?
― Lucky Pierre Delecto (crüt), Thursday, 24 October 2019 11:34 (four years ago) link
You don't understand. Anglo pop may seem ubiquitous but it is actually oppressed by rockists and their hegemonic ideology of authenticity.
― All along there is the sound of feedback (Sund4r), Thursday, 24 October 2019 12:10 (four years ago) link
Every time I go to the supermarket, they blast Keith Rowe and John Tilbury's Duos for Doris, please help!
― pomenitul, Thursday, 24 October 2019 12:12 (four years ago) link
oh i forgot this was happening
― Xia Nu del Vague (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 24 October 2019 12:24 (four years ago) link
I know entire genres are absent and it annoys me too, but this is breastcrawl's lament for a specific form of cultural positioning that certainly had (has?) its place. Although I'd say reports of its demise are exaggerated
― imago, Thursday, 24 October 2019 12:26 (four years ago) link
It would have had its place in a completely different context. As it stands, it's just the same old Anglo-American (indie) rockist vs poptimist tertium non datur turf war that knowingly ignores impossibly large swathes of music, some of which happen to be as immense as entire continents. What are the chances that, say, Toumani Diabaté's The Mandé Variations – a relatively well-known 'world' music album that I voted for – will place at this point? I hope to be pleasantly surprised, but I'm not getting my hopes up.
― pomenitul, Thursday, 24 October 2019 12:34 (four years ago) link
good point, well made tbh
― imago, Thursday, 24 October 2019 12:37 (four years ago) link
polling is, i would argue, fundamentally not an effective means of challenging hegemony and "consensus". if you want to poll a population of, largely, anglo-americans on "music" and somehow get results that aren't dominated by anglo-american pop-rock the only way to do that is to write the rules so as to exclude anglo-america pop-rock.
― Spironolactone T. Agnew (rushomancy), Thursday, 24 October 2019 13:46 (four years ago) link
Exclude Anglo-American voters.
― Michael Oliver of Penge Wins £5 (Tom D.), Thursday, 24 October 2019 13:50 (four years ago) link
Tom otm
Trolling aside, I don't disagree with you, Kate, but bringing up this issue on the poll's margins is fair game imho, as is expecting more from music nerds, regardless of their cultural background. I don't know if you voted, incidentally, but you're precisely the kind of ILXor I expect to come up with a fascinating and genuinely diverse ballot.
― pomenitul, Thursday, 24 October 2019 14:16 (four years ago) link
― pomenitul, Thursday, October 24, 2019 7:16 AM (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink
ok lol I missed this was the thread for meta commentary. pomenitul was it you or imago (or someone else, sorry) who recently said something about the rolling threads not being poptimist so much as genreist? That seemed otm to me and describes my own stance better than poptimism. Like the generic, linguistic, and geographic narrowness of (much of) pitchfork and these poll results bugs me, but I also don't get much out of, say, the Singles Jukebox's open-eared but naive--I don't mean that pejoratively--approach; I prefer to hear about specific scenes from people steeped in them. I suspect breastcrawl is actually closer to this position too but identifies as a poptimist because his favored genres are global pop (apologies if that's off base, and I know you like other stuff too).
― rob, Thursday, 24 October 2019 14:19 (four years ago) link
It wasn't me, but that makes some amount of sense, even though I do think poptimism (which I define as a preference for short, catchy *songs* with vocals, which may in fact include rock) is still the main, overrepresented force in these polls and on ILM in general.
― pomenitul, Thursday, 24 October 2019 14:24 (four years ago) link
this is definitely the right thread to be refighting the poptimism wars in for the 10,000th time
― genre: post-britpop (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 24 October 2019 14:27 (four years ago) link
I hope you're not being sarcastic because that is absolutely accurate!
― pomenitul, Thursday, 24 October 2019 14:28 (four years ago) link
In time we'll move to the second thoughts about second thoughts thread thread.
Don't make permanence out the the throwaway or you will be locked in when the guard goes home.
(I translated this from the Latin in the Wetherspoons inside Lime Street station and it stuck with ever since)
― saer, Thursday, 24 October 2019 14:31 (four years ago) link
pomtimism
― gyac, Thursday, 24 October 2019 14:34 (four years ago) link
http://www.pomwonderful.com/content/dam/pom/images/product-pomegranate.png
― Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Thursday, 24 October 2019 14:37 (four years ago) link
That's the spirit! I do believe my position, which boils down to 'we need MORE aesthetic diversity', is in fact the most optimistic of all.
― pomenitul, Thursday, 24 October 2019 14:38 (four years ago) link
― pomenitul, Thursday, October 24, 2019 7:16 AM (four hours ago)
otm
― Mordy, Thursday, 24 October 2019 15:30 (four years ago) link
Like the generic, linguistic, and geographic narrowness of (much of) pitchfork and these poll results bugs me, but I also don't get much out of, say, the Singles Jukebox's open-eared but naive--I don't mean that pejoratively--approach; I prefer to hear about specific scenes from people steeped in them.
Actually, TSJ has quite a few genre specialists, whether in Chilean electro pop, metal, etc.
― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 24 October 2019 15:32 (four years ago) link
Die Todliche Doris
― sarahell, Thursday, 24 October 2019 15:38 (four years ago) link
My supermarket does play some pretty good music tbf.
― Michael Oliver of Penge Wins £5 (Tom D.), Thursday, 24 October 2019 15:46 (four years ago) link
My local supermarket, that is.
― Michael Oliver of Penge Wins £5 (Tom D.), Thursday, 24 October 2019 15:47 (four years ago) link
Jelly.
― pomenitul, Thursday, 24 October 2019 15:47 (four years ago) link
xpostI believe you! I probably shouldn't have tried to pick an example since TSJ is if nothing else a shifting collection of individuals not a monolith. What I was hoping to express is that I genuinely admire TSJ's wide-open approach; it's basically unique right now afaict and is much better example of poptimism than the caricatured version pilloried around here lately. But the panel format often doesn't work for me. Given my own crit preferences and areas of special interest, I get easily annoyed when a writer is clearly hearing something they're unfamiliar with and is unable to situate the song in its local context. I used to assume "I don't like TSJ," but the idea of genreism struck me as a more useful explanation.
Mordy, pom, is there room in your critique for acknowledging that the version of "pop" represented here is dismayingly narrow? I'm not a country fan, but it belongs on that list too.
― rob, Thursday, 24 October 2019 15:49 (four years ago) link
the version of "pop" represented here is dismayingly narrow
In my critique or in the poll results?
― pomenitul, Thursday, 24 October 2019 15:50 (four years ago) link
Country only really sells in the US, if you want to narrow things further.
― Michael Oliver of Penge Wins £5 (Tom D.), Thursday, 24 October 2019 15:51 (four years ago) link
+all electronic music except low-key house music.
― mfktz (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Thursday, 24 October 2019 15:54 (four years ago) link
my local supermarket got bought by Amazon and since then the music has sucked, except for that one Fleetwood Mac song they seem to play at the same time every evening
― sarahell, Thursday, 24 October 2019 15:54 (four years ago) link
I believe you! I probably shouldn't have tried to pick an example since TSJ is if nothing else a shifting collection of individuals not a monolith. What I was hoping to express is that I genuinely admire TSJ's wide-open approach; it's basically unique right now afaict and is much better example of poptimism than the caricatured version pilloried around here lately. But the panel format often doesn't work for me. Given my own crit preferences and areas of special interest, I get easily annoyed when a writer is clearly hearing something they're unfamiliar with and is unable to situate the song in its local context. I used to assume "I don't like TSJ," but the idea of genreism struck me as a more useful explanation.
.
― rob,
all good!
― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 24 October 2019 15:56 (four years ago) link
♪♩♫ thunder only happens when it's raining ♪♫♪
*water gently sprays onto the produce section*
― It is my great honor to post on this messageboard! (Karl Malone), Thursday, 24 October 2019 15:57 (four years ago) link
― mfktz (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Thursday, October 24, 2019 8:54 AM (one minute ago) bookmarkflaglink
selective ignorance of stars of the lid and oneohtrix point never placements
― american bradass (BradNelson), Thursday, 24 October 2019 15:57 (four years ago) link
why are we talking about this in this thread again
― american bradass (BradNelson), Thursday, 24 October 2019 15:58 (four years ago) link
clearly y'all ain't afraid to express these opinions on the actual thread
everyone knows ILM people can’t see ILE replies and vice versa
― gyac, Thursday, 24 October 2019 15:59 (four years ago) link
what's crazy about SotL is that there are very few electronic/synth elements (at least as far as i could tell from live performance). they do a crazy amount of things with pedals
― It is my great honor to post on this messageboard! (Karl Malone), Thursday, 24 October 2019 16:00 (four years ago) link
The two solitudes redux.
xp
― pomenitul, Thursday, 24 October 2019 16:00 (four years ago) link
many xps to Brad, ok, yeah, bit extreme, there is also some ambient and other various bits and pieces.but point is that the decade where dubstep happened now has been reduced to just burial on here, certainly nothing fast or harsh or less than 100% tasteful
― mfktz (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Thursday, 24 October 2019 16:01 (four years ago) link
Ok I'm going to copy/paste the whole thing into the original thread.
― pomenitul, Thursday, 24 October 2019 16:02 (four years ago) link
― american bradass (BradNelson), Thursday, October 24, 2019 11:58 AM (one minute ago) bookmarkflaglink
I genuinely felt bad interrupting the rollout with my bathetic "whither ILM" musings, but honestly I'll talk about this wherever people want I swear
pom: in the poll results
― rob, Thursday, 24 October 2019 16:04 (four years ago) link
Replying to your question from the other thread, rob: most definitely! I'm trying to make a systemic point about the triumph of pop in general but there is obviously room for greater diversity within it as well.
― pomenitul, Thursday, 24 October 2019 16:06 (four years ago) link