I'm sad

Unless my peeing on you would make you less sad, in which case I could only be a gentleman.

Whereas I rather like its earthiness and yet its gripping concision.

Stinging, one might say. Stinging concision.

Hey, sometimes you're the urine and sometimes you're the snow.

Pretty much the only time I wasn't crying or working on not crying was when I woke up in the morning and before I remembered how sad I was. And then the chest pain would start and then the crying, and I would do everything in my day operating through a screen of tears. On the subway, at work -- I stopped trying to hide it, actually. Would just keep working, but with my eyes streaming. Lasted...a couple of weeks? A month? God, was that boring. Breaking and maiming of the psyche, yes, but ultimately just really really boring.

It's really hard not to read hostility into a messageboard where a frank confession of soul-crushing depression and its unpleasant physical effects leads to a string of rather not-very-nice sexual banter. Like, does no one have an idea of what's appropriate behaviour or not?

But hey, it moves sadness into anger quite effectively, really.

Bits of this thread made me smile, specifically:

And I would like to know you
or at least a 7 year old kid
your BBQ burned out long before
your something something rhyming with "kid"

.. which is nice.

It's funny really, Tues I was somewhat bouncy, yesterday I was a bit 'unbouncy', but then I get home and I have a couple of "7yearoldkids", or one 11 and one 9, who were dressing for Ascot (without actually going), and all was well again.

Re: hostility and appropriate behavior

Nobody here is trying to offend or hurt you. You're seeing these things because you're looking for them. Please try to stop, you'll be a lot happier in life.

Sorry :-( (please don't be angry now someone tries to help)

Wow. So someone starts talking about pissing on my face, and it's *my* problem if I think that's somewhat offensive?

OK, I really don't belong in this place any more.

Ok. Really sorry now.

Hi, Kate. Have you met our friend Kenan? He is occasionally shockingly inappropriate; it's kind of his "thing". Either let him know it's a problem, at which point he'll probably apologize very nicely, or just move on and chalk one up to it taking all kinds.

Oh my. I haven't been back to this thread in too long.

Kate, I'm really sorry! Laurel is totally right (btw, thank you for kind-of defending me, Laurel, or at least as much as much as I deserve). I was just idly amusing myself, and I never meant for it to be at your expense. I mean, I don't know you at all. In fact, from what I do know about you, I'm kind of fond of you. And I swear I don't make a habit of peeing on people that I'm fond of. Picking on them a bit, maybe, but I meant no harm, I really didn't.

(And really... pissholes in the snow? That's disgusting.)

Let us now continue with our sad program, already in progress.

I don't expect answers, but I am interested in why girls are able to cry all day, and I can only cry at Carmen or Dylan.

Why? Because we're sad.

Wow. So someone starts talking about pissing on my face, and it's *my* problem if I think that's somewhat offensive?

I'm positivel y sure he doesn't mean it that way!

Go on Kate accept this MEGA HUGGELZ from a Belgian waffle girl. ;-)

Yeah I feel bad, Kate. My strategies for lightening the mood are perhaps illustrative of why I should stay off any thread called "I'm sad" or anything like it."

I am very sorry if I hurt your feelings. And I know I said it before, but I always liked you.

You can wear my letterman jacket, if you want...

Oh fuck it, there's no way I'm not going to stop being a giant asshole. I think most people have realized this way before me.

good job, kenan

Eat me.

No, it's OK, Kenan. I didn't understand that you were trying to be lighthearted to break a mood.

One of the worst things about hardcore depression is that you lose your ability to see humour in everything. The world really gets reduced down to this black and white flatness, where everyone is either with you or against you - usually against you.

I managed to not cry for most of the day yesterday, and then collapsed into bawling on the bus home, and stayed that way for the rest of the evening.

Today it's completely gone, like it was never there to start with. Maybe it's cathartic or something.

Kate, for me it helps realizing it will get better. This state isn't eternal. Also, it's not bad to cry. You should not feel guilty for crying.

i don't cry when i'm depressed -- that's when i'm the least emotional. the breakdowns happen when i'm a collection of raw nerves -- like when i haven't slept and i'm exhausted and anxious.

^

I have various "hues" of depression. When I'm so far into my depression, then I usually don't cry anymore. I guess I don't cry because I can't imagine a different state of mind. At one point death seemed "understandable".

At one point death seemed "understandable".

It seems like a serious downer, and yet I really hope I get ot the point before I die.

I'm too old to be depressed, I have family to take care of, but we had a death in the family and I can't get out of bed sometimes. Not the same as being depressed and not understanding why, but I hate myself for not getting out of bed in the morning.

It took me changing my gender to understand that Kenan is right about women and crying. Certainly men can and do cry, but you'd be surprised how much crying is linked to hormonal changes. There are actually chemical reasons why girls can suddenly feel like crying for no particular reason at all and there are also chemical reasons why a boy can feel sad but somehow, strangely unable to translate that into crying. It doesn't even have anything to do with societal pressure on them not to cry. I've been on both sides of the fence and I continue to be.

Not the same as being depressed and not understanding why, but I hate myself for not getting out of bed in the morning.

This could be a sign of depression. Not necessarily, obv., but it's possible. How to Diagnose Clinical Depression Symptoms("Hopelessness is one of the major depression symptoms. This is the feeling that there is no point in getting out of bed in the morning.").

There are actually chemical reasons why girls can suddenly feel like crying for no particular reason at all and there are also chemical reasons why a boy can feel sad but somehow, strangely unable to translate that into crying. It doesn't even have anything to do with societal pressure on them not to cry.

I wonder what that is all about. Surely it's not any one chemical that makes you cry, or even allows you to cry. Maybe -- and this is my flimsy hypothesis -- maybe testosterone suppresses that impulse, which would otherwise be fairly fundamental. I have always wondered why my girlfriends (and also girl friends) cried when they were sad, or angry, or even sometimes orgasmic, and I only cried during movies. The fact that I know songs that never fail to make me cry and yet I have had grandparents that passed without a tear from me has made me feel cold and wrong-headed for a long time.

the feeling that there is no point in getting out of bed in the morning

Another confusing topic for me. I certainly know the feeling of believing there's no POINT in getting out of bed, but I have also very frequently been UNABLE to get out of bed. I used to think it was blood sugar, and that's still possibly a part of it, but lately I think it's all about dopamine levels. They seem to have their own schedules and rules. My doctor can't even begin to explain. The main thing that the meds I'm on do is to jack the fuck out of my dopamine levels, which oddly not only wakes me up much more quickly in the morning, but enables me to get better sleep. Dopamine is not only the chemical that seems most related to physical movement, but also to sleep paralysis and hard REM sleep. Nobody really knows exactly how it works, because it works in tandem with SO many other brain chemicals... anyway. It's hard fro me to know some mornings if I'm unmotivated andsad and my day seems hopeless, or if I really honestly just can't move.

There's a stress hormone that women generally have higher levels of, prolactin, which has been studied as an agent for easier tearing up. I don't know if there have been any definitive results, though.

I believe estrogen plays a role as well, if you don't mind me saying so. What I do know is that often on the last day of my testosterone cycle (i.e. when T is at its lowest point and conversely, estrogen at its highest) I have these sudden involuntary tics (or jerks, whatever) where I nearly burst out crying over nothing at all. Of course I suppress these tics when they happen and do not actually cry, but I find them very irritating because there is no logical reason behind them and because they remind me I'm transgendered. I've talked to transgendered folks who are going in the other direction than I am and I believe they've experienced something similar.

Also, I mean...there has to be a reason why my mom cried uncontrollably when she hit menopause. There was no real reason behind any of it, it was just...what was happening to her body.

But yes, in general, I believe testosterone acts as a suppressant to crying, as Kenan said.

I think progesterone is a more likely agent than estrogen, though mainly from personal experience - progesterone peaks every month before menstrual bleeding begins (the bleeding is actually caused by progesterone withdrawal), and that's when I'm most prone to both depression and unstoppable crying. It fits with your mom's experience too - menopause in many women is characterized by high progesterone levels that no longer drop off. But sadness is sadness and whether exacerbated by uncontrollable hormone fluctuations or not, it's rough when a person is that low.

Yeah, that's true. I mean, we're talking about this stuff, but really anybody can cry or not cry and it may have nothing to do with hormones, sure. I don't know much about progesterone. I guess a Male-To-Female transperson would know more about that. I really don't remember what it was like emotionally when I had periods either, for some reason (though I certainly remember the physical pain). So yeah, thanks for contributing that bit of information, I didn't know that.

Ever since having kids, I'm much more prone to crying. The other day I cried after reading a baby having been beaten to death by her caretaker. I would always have been sad, but now I just started weeping. (Yes, I know it's also becauseI have kids, I know what loss the parent must have experienced. But still...)

Now that I am older I am around kids more. Male or female, when you see kids cry you want to cry too. When I was a kid, I used to tell crying people to quit whining. Maybe I should be sorry I did that and this is just karma for being lacking in compassion all these years.

The problem is, there are so many different kinds of sadness, and though they may present as similar in aspect, they have totally different causes and *feel* different.

The WAAAAAAHHH EVERYTHING IS GOING WRONG wail of pre-menstrual tension is different from the JUST. WANT. TO DIE. NOW. stabbing headache of the depressive cycle of depression is different from the EVERYTHING IS JUST POINTLESS blanket misery of being unhappy.

isn't crying supposed to purge the body of certain chemicals (neurotransmitters?) so that you feel better when it's over? Remember reading something to that effect.

Bimble, I hope you don't think me rude for bringing this up - no offense is intended - I had no idea you were transgender. F to M? That's really kinda amazing. Huge respect to you.

Yes, that's right, Kate. I never really know who's gotten that bit of information here and who hasn't. And I guess that's for the best. I know there are bound to be some folks here who'd like to kill me for it, so I try not to pay too much attention to it all. I do like you though, especially because I think our posting styles are actually quite similar at times.

I know there are bound to be some folks here who'd like to kill me for it,

Excuse me, unless you have specific names and claims, this is an ugly slanderous generalization to throw out there.

You mean, when we're drunk, Bimble? ;-)

(sorry, I've been hitting the Sailor Jerry while I paint.)

I'd like to think that ILX is more open minded than that, but hey, I am kinda sick of being surprised by people.

sad in a resigned and subtle way

a sad of weariness

Oh Bimble, sorry to bring it up if you wanted it on the d/l but knowing you are f2m makes me love you like 10x more.

sublimate your mood thru a soothing keytar melody, abbott

Abbott, i send you a spark of sunshine!

also elmo, lovin your username. she will be performing at my place of work this year!

I know there are bound to be some folks here who'd like to kill me for it, so I try not to pay too much attention to it all.

Really? This seems like a pretty come-as-your-are type of place to me ... but then again, I operate at the margins somewhat, so maybe I am unaware?

it's been a sad June

sux 2 b u all

It has been a somewhat grim June.