Question Time and This Week

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ah Melanie Phillips - i didn't expect her to sound like that actually, stern schoolteacher style. i couldn't pay much attention to it last night. i shall look forward to lampooning Littlejohn next week from the comfort of my own settee tho.

Freelance Hiveminder (blueski), Friday, 22 October 2004 09:44 (nineteen years ago) link

Who is Caroline Flint and where have they been hiding her? For once, one of the Blair Babes was a bit of a Babe, thick as pigshit tho

What did you do in the war, Dadaismus? (Dada), Friday, 22 October 2004 09:46 (nineteen years ago) link

Overall, Clement Freud won

What did you do in the war, Dadaismus? (Dada), Friday, 22 October 2004 09:46 (nineteen years ago) link

You could play a Richard Littlejohn drinking game.

Drink when he says:
"You couldn't make it up!"
"Cottaging!"
"Hell in a handcart!"
"The PC brigade!
"Guardianista!"

Drain your glass when he says:
"Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve!"

robster (robster), Friday, 22 October 2004 10:00 (nineteen years ago) link

I havn't seen/heard Michael Moore do intelligent debate before - the nearest I've seen have all been straw-man bluster. SHould be interesting. Mind you, if that Littlejohn feller is on there, we won't get much intelligent debate that night anyway.

Johnney B (Johnney B), Friday, 22 October 2004 10:04 (nineteen years ago) link

Tatchell just talked in slogans last night (although Dimbleby's treatment of him was predictably cursory).

Why haven't the Left got a lucid, authoritative spokesperson in this country (Tony Benn is too old now)? One is sorely needed.

Venga, Friday, 22 October 2004 10:09 (nineteen years ago) link

They don't get invited on Question Time - there's your answer.

What did you do in the war, Dadaismus? (Dada), Friday, 22 October 2004 10:11 (nineteen years ago) link

I think George Galloway thinks he's it.

Cathy (Cathy), Friday, 22 October 2004 14:33 (nineteen years ago) link

Caroline Flint was rediculously unintelligent - if I was Tony I wouldn't have let her on. Tatchell was alright, he certainly seemed passionate, although speaking at twice the volume of the other guests is always a turnoff. Is Clement Freud going blind?

Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Friday, 22 October 2004 14:40 (nineteen years ago) link

Yes, Flint was dumb.

It is funny how old Tories become loveable lefties, viz. Heseltine's slapping down of the odious Phillips. (It is funny also that she was a Guardian columnist for so long!)

I saw Michael Moore on QT once and was so impressed that I rang the Corporation and told them how good it had been.

Hey, maybe that's why they've asked him back!

the bellefox, Saturday, 23 October 2004 09:23 (nineteen years ago) link


so OTM about ex tories/government ministers becomin lovable.

the snag seems to be that any member of the current cabinet, backbench labour types etc are aware that the pm may watching and have 2 constantly tow the line no matter how much the audience groans, dimbleby tears into them, fellow panelists laugh and suchlike. they've become just as toothless as the tories on the show were in the 80's. the current crop of blues couldn't give anything like as much of a toss what happens give or take, so they can kind of say what they like. i've seen the likes of boateng consistently reduced to the most simpering wet ball-less geeks, and felt sympathy even for tebbit at one point in the past few years. watching robin cook desperately unconvincingly trying to defend his position in early 2003 while sitting next to benjamin zephaniah was *agony*. he apparantly turned to bj as the credits rolled to say 'i agree with every word you said, i'm quitting next week' then did just that!

piscesboy, Saturday, 23 October 2004 09:40 (nineteen years ago) link

Caroline Flint's website is lilac coloured, and she has a photo gallery.

Alba (Alba), Saturday, 23 October 2004 11:56 (nineteen years ago) link

http://www.carolineflint.co.uk/gallery/gallery-large11.htm

the caption on this is great...

CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Saturday, 23 October 2004 12:05 (nineteen years ago) link

It is on tonight, then?

the bellefox, Thursday, 28 October 2004 12:25 (nineteen years ago) link

The American edition - can't wait!

Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 28 October 2004 12:27 (nineteen years ago) link

oh lawks i need to get my housemate to record this

Freelance Hiveminder (blueski), Thursday, 28 October 2004 12:28 (nineteen years ago) link

I'd forgotten about this! That's something to look forward too, and hopefully take my mind off the fact that I still have no costume for a party tomorrow night...

Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Thursday, 28 October 2004 13:42 (nineteen years ago) link

Go as Michael Moore!

Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 28 October 2004 13:43 (nineteen years ago) link

Actually, that might not be so hard. Anyway, I can tell this is going to be good already. (I'm going as Lincoln - I wanted something US themed. I was going to go as Ulysses S Grant, because he had a beard and wore his hair kind of long at times, but the thought of making a unionist uniform was kinf of intimidating.)

Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Thursday, 28 October 2004 20:53 (nineteen years ago) link

Fucking Hell, I never thought I'd say this but Littlejohn was probably the second most sane and coherent member of that panel (the woman from the Miami voting league thing barely putting a foot wrong all the way through). The most depressing thing was the remaining three trying to make every single question a party issue even when it wasn't (to Dimbleby's obvious annoyance) and Moore's tendency to make anti-British 'jokes' whenever he could (Also, laughing at your own 'jokes' is extremely bad form, surely? Especially if no-one else is?).

The highlight though was Moore confidently stating that Kerry will make the better President because he's going to properly go and hunt down terrorists, wherever they are. "Dude, Where's Your Credibility?" Haven't you just made millions from a film saying the very opposite?

aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Thursday, 28 October 2004 21:59 (nineteen years ago) link

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/question_time/default.stm

Watch again folks

Gribowitz (Lynskey), Thursday, 28 October 2004 22:14 (nineteen years ago) link

Actually, don't. It's abhorent whooping and cheerleading.

Gribowitz (Lynskey), Thursday, 28 October 2004 22:19 (nineteen years ago) link

I only saw a bit of this, but that Isreali woman who basically said that all Arabs were evil made me SO angry.

Wooden (Wooden), Thursday, 28 October 2004 22:50 (nineteen years ago) link

I was astonished that her comments went completely unchallenged by the panel, but the whole show was pathetic: moore, frum and blummenthal lacked basic eloquency and made littlejohn look bright in comparison (although when he effectively accused moore of treason for failing to support his elected leader I couldn't help but bellow 'hypocritical cunt' at the tv).

littlejohn would NEVER get on Question Time in the UK, which just shows what a poor shower this lot were.

the audience was woefully ignorant and incapable of expressing points that weren't related directly to their own experiences (and even that was done badly). it was as if they'd never seen a political debate before.

the miami voting league woman was terrific though. she brooked no shit.

Pete W (peterw), Friday, 29 October 2004 08:25 (nineteen years ago) link

Yeah, it was funny how different it was from UK Question Time.

I am still wondering about the pagan woman. Why was her voted discounted? Not because she was pagan, surely? She seemed to imply that.

Cathy (Cathy), Friday, 29 October 2004 09:58 (nineteen years ago) link

that Isreali woman who basically said that all Arabs were evil made me SO angry.

oh god. i almost threw my glass at the tv at that point. i can't believe that no one commented.

xpost - and pagan woman was nuts, too. i'm assuming she meant that her vote was discounted in that bush stole the election despite the popular vote.

lauren (laurenp), Friday, 29 October 2004 09:59 (nineteen years ago) link

I thought it was rubbish. The questions were rubbish (who would Bin Laden vote for?) and Michael Moore was rubbish and the audience was rubbsih and they hooted and hollered and generaly showed how civilized Mr Didcot-Parkway of Cheltenham and other great British audience members really are. It was like MTV Unplugged with questions. So I switched back over and watched 'Romy and Michelle's High School Reunion'. The only thing I liked was when Dimbleby referred to a Marilyn Manson-type dude as 'the gentleman in black'. Other audience members just assumed he meant someone else.

PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Friday, 29 October 2004 10:08 (nineteen years ago) link

You people are nuts for liking the voting-agency-lady. She got worse and worse as it went on. That bit where she started banging on about religion was insufferable.

What's wrong with scoring party points? We need our people to be as partisan as possible. Moore was not, mostly, on fire, but he had a few better gags than anyone else, and when he takes a verbal swing at the enemy it gets me up and enthused with the blood of the battle. He is our commando guerilla comedy warrior of cynicism and low down dirty cunning and I'm backing him to the hilt any old time he wants to take down one of the enemy.

the bluefox, Friday, 29 October 2004 12:11 (nineteen years ago) link

PF, you never cease to amaze me, i had no idea of yr MM love...

CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Friday, 29 October 2004 13:08 (nineteen years ago) link

I only saw the first ten minutes and the last two. MM's contributions in those bits were not scintillating. Perhaps he got better. I did notice his voice was very deep and raspy tho' compared to what I remember. Did he have a cold or something?

The audience was annoying - whooping/jeering at every soundbite or before the speaker had a chance to finish their argument.

Jeff W (zebedee), Friday, 29 October 2004 13:25 (nineteen years ago) link

also.. the crazy older lady with drawn-on eyebrows and a red, white, and blue jacket hollering about how clinton was actually the one responsible for letting bin laden get away. i thought (hoped?) that she was going to have a seizure.

lauren (laurenp), Friday, 29 October 2004 13:33 (nineteen years ago) link

I saw a bit of it but found it so Jerry Springerish I had to go to bed. They should have forced the audience to watch a couple of episodes of Proper Question Time before filming began to give them an idea of how we like our audiences and panel members to behave. Romy & Michelle was way better, but Ally didn't laugh at it much, so I didn't make him switch back to it.

Madchen (Madchen), Friday, 29 October 2004 13:41 (nineteen years ago) link

I didn't like the voting lady much either, especially when she paused for an uncomfortably long time before saying "incarnation", and it was completely not the right word.

Cathy (Cathy), Friday, 29 October 2004 13:53 (nineteen years ago) link

all of the audience were like hilarious caricatures. there was the feisty young cuban woman who made no sense about voting cards; the moody goth who just said 'boxcutters'; the woman who was really a man talking about personal liberty.

i've realised i liked the voting woman mainly because of her eyebrow usage.

Pete W (peterw), Friday, 29 October 2004 14:16 (nineteen years ago) link

the moody conservative goth: "so what if weapons of mass destruction weren't found. you could walk on a plane with boxcutters."

ok. lock everyone up and have done with it. we're all capable of walking on to a plane.

lauren (laurenp), Friday, 29 October 2004 14:20 (nineteen years ago) link

I am surprised about Ally. I didn't know he was such a misery-guts.

PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Friday, 29 October 2004 14:23 (nineteen years ago) link

I watched this with my mum and she pointed out there was a lot of screaming etc. Apart from the first 10 mins I was listening to the radio and put the subtitles on so from those opening moments it didn't seem that bad considering there is an election next week, the country being far more divided etc. (also there is a lot more cheering in US shows).

I liked Michael Moore's answer to the man who suggested that he wouldn't want war under ANY circumstances.

'I am still wondering about the pagan woman. Why was her voted discounted? Not because she was pagan, surely? She seemed to imply that.'

oh that is what she was saying.


I really got bored from the question about Blair onwards so I didn't get through all of it.


Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 29 October 2004 14:30 (nineteen years ago) link

Moore was disappointing, he came over as smaug and complacent. But still infinitely preferable to Littlejohn, who's comment that Moore was a modern day 'Lord Haw-Haw' was unbelievably offensive but washed over the panel and audience, probably as it's such a British reference.

Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Friday, 29 October 2004 17:16 (nineteen years ago) link

I didn't get the Lord Haw-Haw reference, but laughed anyway.

Cathy (Cathy), Friday, 29 October 2004 17:28 (nineteen years ago) link

British pro-Nazi propagandist who broadcast in English from Germany during WWII.

Michael White (Hereward), Friday, 29 October 2004 17:29 (nineteen years ago) link

Oh, I just Wikipediaed and it's a lot more offensive than I thought. No wonder Moore looked so outraged.

Cathy (Cathy), Friday, 29 October 2004 17:32 (nineteen years ago) link

Is it really offensive as far as Moore would (should?) be concerned?

Someone who speaks out in direct opposition against the leader of their country, using disinformation as a tactic, while in a "war"?

Sounds like it entirely sums up his past 4 years.

aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Friday, 29 October 2004 17:43 (nineteen years ago) link

Attacking Bushco=!Defending the Reich

Michael White (Hereward), Friday, 29 October 2004 17:45 (nineteen years ago) link

Either you're being sarcastic, or you're being a cunt. You decide.

aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Friday, 29 October 2004 17:57 (nineteen years ago) link

Can't I be both like most days?

Michael White (Hereward), Friday, 29 October 2004 18:07 (nineteen years ago) link

Oh, all right..

But there is a more serious point. Lord Haw Haw, singnificant insult though it is, describes Moore completely given that he himself accepts America is at war (otherwise he could not claim, without contradiction, that Kerry should "go after terrorists better than Bush did"). The man has no place in rational or democratic politics, pure and simple. He fails to understand the process or the mechanism. (I take Pete W's point upthread about Littlejohn's "supporting your leader", but this is different. We're talking about Moore's own definition.)

aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Friday, 29 October 2004 18:16 (nineteen years ago) link

I'll go back to being a cunt then Aldo, 'cause I believe it's utter twaddle to equate Moor's criticism of this war, its justifications, the administration, the administration's grasp of the threat, the admin.'s approach to protecting America to the annhiliationist, anti-semitic, outright treason that Haw Haw committed from enemy soil and in enemy pay. One doesn't have to like Moore, God forfend, but your argument is either willfully ignorant or has feet of purest clay.

Michael White (Hereward), Friday, 29 October 2004 18:23 (nineteen years ago) link

xpost

I think there's a world of difference between someone campaigning in a democratic forum, where his opinions can be challenged and tested, and yes, sometimes found wanting. Versus someone acting as a propagandist, spreading lies and misinformation for one of the most vicious regimes in history.

Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Friday, 29 October 2004 18:29 (nineteen years ago) link

I have to disagree. Again, and much as I said it at the beginning of my input to this thread, it pains me to disagree with Littlejohn, but Moore is reliant on obfuscation, , and plain disingenueity, to win this "war" - as he himself has described it, for the first time in "Stupid White Men", I believe although he repeats it in "Dude..." and "F9/11", - against Bush and his perceived allies, and will align himself with the opposition irrespective of their deeds in present or past (I'll be one of the first to assert that the Saddam of 2004, 0r 2003, was of no threat, the the Saddam 10 years ago was - something Moore is a denier/apologist for, merely see his last book: he takes on a David Irving-esque approach to Saddam's part in the attacks on Kurds and Iranians, because they were BUSHCO's fault) and to repeat lies, mistruths and allegations as fact in support of his aims.

Moore, by his own definition is fighting a "war" and is spreading disinformation in support of it. Aside from direct parallels such as anti-Semetism, which I don't anyone accuse Moore of to date, I don;t see what other part of it is wrong.

aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Friday, 29 October 2004 18:34 (nineteen years ago) link

He's a free man, in free society expressing his views and, unless you know something I don't, he's not being sheltered or aided by Al-Qaida or die-hard Baathists. By all means, call him out, show the inconsistencies in his arguments or approach but to equate him to pseudonymous traitor in the Nazi's pay actually does your critique of him a disservice.

Michael White (Hereward), Friday, 29 October 2004 18:39 (nineteen years ago) link


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