The Sopranos Vs. The Wire

Sopranos is a story. The Wire is a lecture.

ridiculous

nonsense

this is before we even get into the sopranos looong looong nothing/nonsense arcs

i love it but its not close

i am gonna watch the sopranos this year and i expect to like it more than the wire simply bc it seems like more of my thing, but the wire isn't a lecture ffs

"SNAT BOOGIE"

it approaches every social problem through a fuckin STORY

you've never seen sopranos?

nope not yet

i've seen one episode actually, one of the season openers? lotta dream sequences (why it seems like my thing)

report back. I am curious. I can usually make it through a lot of bad shows but it was super boring to me. maybe it picks up in the later seasons.

Dream sequences with Tiny Tears by Tindersticks, no less.

Actually, have I remembered that right?

I can see Sopranos as a soap opera, in that it's a domestic drama, which soap operas are -- like Sons of Anarchy is a soap opera, Game of Thrones is kinda a soap opera ...

if you like dream sequences there are some real doozies in later seasons of the Sopranos.

FWIW I wasn't fully on board for at least the first half of S1 -- thought it was good enough but it def gets better later.

nonsense

this is before we even get into the sopranos looong looong nothing/nonsense arcs

i love it but its not close

― too many cuckth thpoil the broth (darraghmac), Tuesday, October 8, 2019 9:12 PM (eleven minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

otfm.

And Sarahell otm, too. Sopranos, in essence, is a domestic soap opera. Nowt wrong with that, it's a stellar show. But it's nowhere near as immediate as The Wire, it never cuts as deep imo.

Dream sequences with Tiny Tears by Tindersticks, no less.

― Life is a meaningless nightmare of suffering...save string (Chinaski), Tuesday, October 8, 2019 12:18 PM (two minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Actually, have I remembered that right?

― Life is a meaningless nightmare of suffering...save string (Chinaski), Tuesday, October 8, 2019 12:19 PM (one minute ago)

this features twice in an episode but neither time is during a dream sequence iirc. one of the best parts of the show tbh

have any of yous watched a soap opera?

I think it's silly to call the Wire a lecture but I think it takes a different view of individuals, where character development is slightly less important (not unimportant) because the story is really their unwitting roles in the larger system. Sopranos takes an equally tragic but more personalized view of its characters.

I watched the Days of Our Lives / Another World / Santa Barbara daytime block every summer for a couple years back in the mid 80s

Yep. Bold & The Beautiful, ATWT, Eastenders lol. Sopranos isn't those shows, but it's not miles away.

Sopranos is more zoomed in, hinting at the bigger picture but never showing it, Wire is about the bigger picture.

I think I watched the first season or two of Eastenders when it came out as well

The Wire is a lecture is the most ridiculous hot take in ILX history.

it's definitely a bit "do you see" quite often and i don't think this is controversial.

simon really let the "do you see" take a hold with treme

I also studied soap operas academically in college. And how the structure, content and context is gendered feminine and thus often used as a pejorative

Wire is also very much "Here comes another person who thinks they're different, let's watch how the system gradually thwarts them," Sopranos is much more about people who mostly know that they are not going to escape the system they're in, where the rare exceptions are thwarted almost immediately (Vito's brief escape, Carm's confrontation with the therapist, etc.)

Chris's dabblings in acting, film, etc. -- they are played comically, the audience is in on the tragic joke and knows he doesn't stand a chance.

"One thing you can never say, is that you haven't been told." Best line in all of The Sopranos.

not to accuse anyone of sexism who is saying "how dare you call the Sopranos a soap opera" -- I think structurally, with the popularity of multi-season "premium" dramas, with seasonal "arcs," that there is a tendency to emulate the structure and content of soap operas, and, there is a tendency for certain viewers or critics or creators to not see that they are basically reinventing the soap opera, as opposed to creating something totally different, because, the soap opera was seen as not-serious and deemed a pejorative

I cared more about every single one-scene corner boy than Meadow and AJ combined.

Sopranos is much more about people who mostly know that they are not going to escape the system they're in

ohhhhh? uhhhh ... did you watch the Wire? Did you?

some of these criticisms fail to acknowledge that the Sopranos did wide-lens stuff on systems to great effect: police, local and state govts, schools, etc.

The exploration of the failures of American systems was scaffolding for a series of incredibly vivid and wonderful characters.

I’ve actually grown to love Treme but if it was a relative failure it’s that it lacked the structure and made its characters too low-key for the most part.

the only one i remember was the columbus day parade ... not saying you are wrong, just that I really remember very little about this show, and i watched every single episode

the sudden shift to the port at the start of s2 of the wire is the best move ive ever seen a tv show make

im watching sons of anarchy now and sopranos lets be clear is waaay better but the comparison of what the shows *are* is i think valid

the only one i remember was the columbus day parade ... not saying you are wrong, just that I really remember very little about this show, and i watched every single episode

― sarahell, Tuesday, October 8, 2019 12:42 PM (one minute ago)

one of the worst episodes of the show

im watching sons of anarchy now and sopranos lets be clear is waaay better but the comparison of what the shows *are* is i think valid

― too many cuckth thpoil the broth (darraghmac), Tuesday, October 8, 2019 12:44 PM (eight seconds ago)

trolling

i kinda feel like Season 2 with the dockworkers makes for a tidier comparison with Sopranos -- in that it is the least apples/oranges

im not!

xp - how is that trolling? He is otm.

if i were trolling id be on the breaking bad thread telling ye that sons of anarchy is better

which btw i also believe to be true

some of these criticisms fail to acknowledge that the Sopranos did wide-lens stuff on systems to great effect: police, local and state govts, schools, etc.

― The Ravishing of ROFL Stein (Hadrian VIII), Tuesday, October 8, 2019 2:40 PM (one minute ago) bookmarkflaglink

I didn't mean those things as criticisms at all. But I didn't really feel like those moments were "wide lens" -- it more felt like the larger forces' presence was mostly implied and occasionally came directly into the frame. The Wire felt much more about how all of the different pieces were interwoven, the Sopranos seemed very much about the mafia while acknowledging the presence and influence of those other pieces.

ill bump the thread sarahell but thx as always for yr otm support

Just two different approaches to making a show, neither superior. xp

Having watched the Sopranos before the Wire, didn't know there were connections between 'em like:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQjtvBpUSF4

dude, jim, you are going total Turrican rockist about the Sopranos itt ...

ah lets not lose the run of ourselves its just getting started in here

sil: OHHHHWWW

Breaking Bad is better than both the Sopranos and Sons of Anarchy