The Sopranos Vs. The Wire

Vito refraining from looking at his watch until he's SURE he's within a half-hour of lunch and it turns out only to be 9:30...one of a million little humorous moments that give The Sopranos a slight edge over The Wire in rewatch-ability...

he's gotta rest his hips!

Seems like whenever a Sopranos character was becoming sympathetic, they would kill somebody right before they themselves got whacked/offed themselves...Christopher, Vito, Eugene, probably others...wonder if that was a device to remind us that these guys are really just animals at heart, and shame on us for forgetting that...

Bobby is a total huggybear for most of his character arc, until the very end where Tony picks a fight w him + goads him into doing a hit and then... well yeah

well maybe not huggable, maybe more bumbling. But he's never shown doing anything particularly evil or violent

I did love the smalltown section (I could have done with the handlebar moustache) and his whacking was heartbreaking; it was the leather cap, nightclub stuff that felt ill-judged and unnecessary.

What are the chances of Furio still being alive?

https://i.redd.it/s6ish04uefv11.jpg

What are the chances of Furio still being alive?

p good? I don't think we're ever given the impression that he's upset anybody important back home.

p good? I don't think we're ever given the impression that he's upset anybody important back home.

Yeah, I hope so. Something in me just kind of assumes Tony would have used his Sicilian contacts to have him whacked.

Bobby is a total huggybear for most of his character arc, until the very end where Tony picks a fight w him + goads him into doing a hit and then... well yeah

― Οὖτις, Tuesday, October 8, 2019 8:54 AM (seven minutes ago)

it's more that he forces him to do the hit. bobby isn't in a position to say no to tony. tony knows this. it's punishment for emasculating him.

Going down digressive paths during the home stretch is good not bad

Was it Truffaut who said all war movies are pro-war? I kinda feel like the same is true about mafia flicks/shows. Simon is as aware of that as anyone can be and does his best to address it, and maybe Sopranos comes the closest of any work to giving the audience the appropriate level of unease while still drawing them in, yet it's very hard not to root for the characters no matter how despicable they are. Except for Phil Leotardo, fuck that guy.

it's more that he forces him to do the hit. bobby isn't in a position to say no to tony. tony knows this. it's punishment for emasculating him.

right. my point is it's like the only time we see Bobby do something violent

Vito’s arc was really unbelievable a lot of the time. I mean I buy the closeted angle. But yeah I just thought there was no way in hell he would put himself out there in the aforementioned manner at that club. I might buy it if he was at a club a couple thousand miles from home but not there.

he was a whole other county iirc?

he was *in* a whole other county, miles from his hometown/stomping grounds iirc?

like the only reason he got caught was because of the grapevine - some low-level guy in another family told another low-level guy and it eventually got all the way back to Jersey.

that club is actually in New York, I think? Cuz it's some Lupertazzi guys that recognize him.

Wasn't it the mob guys who ran into Christopher and Mumbles at the AA meeting that ratted out Vito? How many of these mob dudes are in rehab?!

iirc Mumbles brings it up to Chrissie at an AA meeting, yeah.

anyway my point is it's not like Vito was getting all leathered up in his backyard and some of his crew spotted him - it's considerably more roundabout than that. Which is why no one in the Sopranos family is inclined to believe it, until Meadow spills the beans and Finn provides confirmation.

I felt like the gay club scene was probably so separate from Mob World that Vito would have seen it as a kind of safe zone, no matter where it was geographically located...

I think there's something really subtle and important going on in that whole plotline -- it's not about whether they're "inclined to believe it" so much as whether there's plausible deniability for Tony to just ignore it. Tony may believe it the first time he hears it, but he doesn't care until it becomes so clearly true that he has no choice but to act. Tony is indifferent about Vito's sexuality because Vito is a good earner. This is neither a moral (i.e. tolerant for moral reasons) nor immoral stance, it's totally amoral and money-oriented. Tony is not particularly homophobic nor particularly pro-LGBTQ, he just likes money. But Phil is "old school" and homophobic (and I think it is implied maybe a closet case himself), and once the word becomes credible enough he finally accepts that something has to be done, again only because the business cost-benefit analysis has now shifted the other way, not because Tony cares much.

Well if Chase wanted to create a narrative situation in which Vito could not possibly explain it away I guess that’s what was accomplished but considering the actual life and death risks I would be more inclined to believe it if it were a, idk, low key Rawls type scenario.

Wasn't it the mob guys who ran into Christopher and Mumbles at the AA meeting that ratted out Vito? How many of these mob dudes are in rehab?!

― henry s, Tuesday, October 8, 2019 9:48 AM (fifty-one seconds ago)

they are not the same guys. they appear only in the scene with vito in the gay club

and are credited as "wise guy #1" and "wise guy #2"

yeah, and then the guy at AA heard it from some other guy etc

I do think the scene w/Vito at the construction site (?) when Finn spots him giving the dude head is meant to show that he’s engaging in some especially risky hookups considering his choice of “career” which is fine but I just didn’t buy the nightclub thing idk.

man alive otm about Tony's rationale/the plausible deniability angle

xp - I also assumed it was a combo of (1) the club was far enough away (maybe in NYC?) that it was pretty unlikely he'd run into anyone from his provincial NJ crew there (especially given that it was a gay club), and (2) he took excessive risk (e.g. the construction site, also the hubris of coming back to the area).

also didn't Rawls show up in a gay bar himself? Isn't that what the reveal was?

xp. isn't manhattan like a half hour drive from newark if the traffic is fine?

vito was being careless

but also...

they're all dumb fucking assholes and vito is no exception

the notion that the club was far enough away seems preposterous, plus he's got to know a place like that would maybe be paying protection money (iirc that's why those guys were there?) I think it was just risky behavior (albeit, imo, somewhat unbelievably risky behavior bc of his particular life). Rawls did pop up in a gay bar scene but it wasn't this over the top thing, he was just there.

Vito is an idiot of course though too.

xp. isn't manhattan like a half hour drive from newark if the traffic is fine?

― Seany's too Dyche to mention (jim in vancouver), Tuesday, October 8, 2019 1:12 PM (thirty-four minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

which is never

one of those shows that has become part of my mental furniture.

see, the Wire is like for me ... the Sopranos isn't really that memorable to me, except for like, the opening credits and some of the scenes w/the wife.

Also, the Sopranos -- again imo -- has the disadvantage of being really similar to other movies and shows on the same topic, so I will try to remember some of the scenes and plot points you mention, and end up with ... "no, wait, that was the Godfather Part 2" or "no, that was Goodfellas" ... or "no, that was actually a French crime show" ...

has the disadvantage of being really similar to other movies and shows on the same topic

lol unlike the Wire and its many cop show cliches

whereas The Wire is pretty unique and singular in what it deals with and how, in terms of scope and scale -- in terms of American shows/movies. Most everything else I've seen that is comparable is from another country and isn't in English (in terms of confusing the show with something else).

I don't find the Sopranos to be similar to other mob shows/films at all

lol unlike the Wire and its many cop show cliches

― Οὖτις, Tuesday, October 8, 2019 11:56 AM (two minutes ago)

cop show cliches like experimenting with drug legalization and the logistics of it?

The answer is still The Wire. Longevity be damned: Sopranos may have a later expiration date, but when the Wire was on, it was on, unlike any other television series. Standing the test of time vs initial impact? In this case I choose the latter, which is the Wire (despite really liking the Sopranos).

I don't find the Sopranos to be similar to other mob shows/films at all

― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Tuesday, October 8, 2019 11:58 AM (forty-two seconds ago)

idk, I liked it, but it was like a standard mob film crossed with a sitcom like Taxi or All in the Family ...

Sopranos was, most of all, a soap opera to me. The best I've ever seen, but a soap opera notwithstanding.

Woody Allen too

I tried hard with the Sopranos and borrowed all my dad's dvds, like 10 years ago, ready to binge it out. But I couldn't deal with all the sad sack men bitching all the time. It's not my genre.

Woody Allen is a soap opera?

sometimes combining 3 of the best things ever makes the best thing ever . art can be that simple

oic