Open for Business: Canadian Politics 2019

I would need more convincing wrt the oppression of one of the founding provinces of Confederation, actually (and possibly even wrt Scotland). That would probably be a very long discussion, though, so I think the key points for me are that i) I don't think the province is currently oppressed and ii) the separatist option in this federal election is not QS but the BQ so that's the platform I am more concerned with atm. If I still lived in Quebec, I could see how I might throw a protest vote to QS provincially; the BQ do seem much more intense about laïcité.

That would indeed be an all too lengthy discussion, but yeah, QS is adamantly opposed to Bill 21 (they're a '514 party' according to their detractors), whereas I wouldn't be surprised if Bloc supporters were of the opinion that it doesn't go far enough, so aside from the separatism (which comes across as halfhearted in QS's case, as in 'we'll bail if the country as a whole doesn't agree with our progressive aims'), and without accounting for the differences between provincial and federal politics, they don't have all that much in common, although you're right to point out that the Bloc's platform is more left-leaning than you'd think.

right/left as generally understood in ROC and U.S. doesn't really work for the Bloc (or the PQ). They are definitely left-leaning economically and are even progressive on many social issues, but at the same time are anti-immigration and anti-religious-minorities.

Looking at the PQ budgets and the literature around them since Bouchard’s election all the way to Marceau’s 2014 budget, I don’t see a single proposal that isn’t austerity laden. The evidence is clear that when it comes to economics, the PQ has long switched to the right. That’s the raison d’être of the QS.

Hm, this (by HuffPo writer Amy MacPherson) is long and throws a lot of stuff out there but it does raise some curious questions about how the brownface scandal was broken. Does seem strange that it came from a US magazine, naming as source a mysterious businessman who no one can track down and whose connection to the school is unclear. Maybe these things don't matter if the story is true? Still, if foreign interference and campaign regulation are issues that matter, it might be worth considering.

https://freethepresscanada.org/2019/09/23/dirty-tricks-behind-trudeau-brownface-blackface-scandal/?fbclid=IwAR0n_X2k8UMphms3NIfVXsInZuJse5wqRDRH_Xw-fqICEbMumUgS6mr-Z-U

It’s the russians! They never forgot 1972 and Henderson’s goal.

Lol

I love the idea of Russians wanting to interfere with canadian elections and having this dark and elaborate and secret plan and in a bunker somewhere but ~ ‘Master Putin we forgot to take in account Quebec’s abject indifference to Canadians minorities and their issues. Our plans has failed!’

the separatism (which comes across as halfhearted in QS's case, as in 'we'll bail if the country as a whole doesn't agree with our progressive aims')

Going back: I should probably let this go, esp since i don't even live in QC, but I think this actually gets at why I have a hard time with the QS idea of 'progressive Quebec nationalism'. QS has never been more than a third party; they are currently doing especially well by holding 10/125 seats in the National Assembly, six of which are concentrated in one city. There is very little evidence that their province as a whole agrees with their progressive aims, perhaps no more so than significant pockets in BC, which is currently led by a fairly progressive NDP/Green government, or Manitoba, which had 17 continuous years of NDP government recently, or even Ontario, whose 15-year Liberal government tried to spearhead some major labour and environmental reforms in its time. The idea that Quebec sovereignty could be grounded in a civic nationalism built around multicultural, social democratic values that are so distinct from the rest of Canada's as to potentially justify separating the country (without any of the "xenophobic pure-laine ... québecois nationalism" that we all seem to agree is currently more dominant) just seems frankly far-fetched to me. (The idea of fundamentally incompatible values between Quebec and ROC seems particularly dubious when the governing centre-left national party, led by a Quebecer, enjoys majority support in Quebec). At least in the case of Scotland, the 'progressive nationalist' party actually has majority support within Scotland, while a right-wing party governs nationally, allowing them to credibly make the claim that their subnational jurisdiction shares their distinct values.

tl;dr Progressive Quebec nationalists will probably have to choose between progressivism and nationalism imo.

<i>(The idea of fundamentally incompatible values between Quebec and ROC seems particularly dubious when the governing centre-left national party, led by a Quebecer, enjoys majority support in Quebec). </i>

agree - separatism under Harper had a lot more juice to it (and maybe we'll see with Scheer...) In Scotland, the SNP's rise in influence really came about suddenly, after decades of something closer to a BQ identity - and what fed it was Cameron's (then, later, May's, and now Johnson's) Tories.

So I think that a push for SOVEREIGNTY here would require a federal government with whom Quebecers disagree more
but the rise/return of the federal NDP or provincial QS in Québec depends in very large part (imho) on the state of the Bloc/Parti Québécois. Those are the natural homes for progressive (separatist-friendly) francophone Quebecers, and they will only consider the alternatives en masse at times when the Bloc or Parti are in tatters (or, as was briefly the case in recent years, oddly right-wing).

are QS running federally now? i don't understand what are you guys talking about, i thought they were a provincial party

Yeah, we got off topic, after I said I wouldn't.

Back on topic, maybe the NDP have also been reading the BQ platform?: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/ndp-quebec-platform-1.5284356

Singh's proposals include giving Quebec the final word on environmental evaluations for major infrastructure projects on its territory, such as pipelines.

Why just Quebec tho?

When he pressed, he did seem to suggest that he would extend the veto to every province: https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/powerandpolitics/jagmeet-singh-ndp-provincial-veto-pipeline-1.5288365

Idk if that's written in the platform, though. Idk if this means that e.g. a province could also veto the affordable housing development project the NDP is proposing?

The NDP is committed to formalizing the process for appointing Supreme Court judges who represent Quebec and will ensure the selection is made from a list of candidates pre-selected by the Government of Quebec.
The NDP is committed to legislation that prevents Conservative or Liberal governments from signing a unilateral agreement with web giants without consulting with Quebec, as Melanie Joly did with Netflix.
The NDP will formally consult Quebec on any international trade agreement. We also commit ourselves to transparent trade negotiations so that the costs and benefits are known before agreements are signed.

(from https://action.ndp.ca/page/-/2019/Q3/Images/2018-08-30_NPD-QC-Platform-EN-FINAL.pdf)

The first of these is especially a bit O_O to me. I don't think the PM and Cabinet currently consult any provincial governments when it comes to the appointment of Supreme Court judges that represent their regions, let alone allow them to make a list of candidates? (All of Atlantic Canada gets one Supreme Court judge, all of Western Canada gets two.) I don't believe they even consult Parliament. Transparent trade negotiations are always a good idea but what exactly would "formal consultation with Quebec" consist of, as distinct from the role of other provinces?

Weird, even for Bernier: https://www.straight.com/news/1307396/peoples-party-canada-uses-photo-japanese-canadian-internment-ad-against

PM already has to commit 3 of the nine positions to civil law judges, namely Quebec. I think that has uproven to be good enough.

Jagmeet is doing an event with Rupi Kaur in Burnaby this weekend if anyone is looking for a reason not to vote NDP

A poet @rupikaur_

took the world by storm

and

she ain’t stopping any time soon https://t.co/7w5qG09jPy

— Jagmeet Singh (@theJagmeetSingh) November 24, 2017

Ha, Kaur's popularity is inexplicable to me but I suppose she's an important cultural figure?

The amount of power Singh is willing to devolve to a provincial government that wouldn't let him work for them is staggering imo.

I think strong environmental policies will have to come from federal power and consensus among provinces and so I doubt it is a good framework. On the other hand, if a province explicitly doesn’t want a pipeline, then federal govt shouldn’t have mechanisms to impose that.

I don’t care for Kaur personally but she can’t possibly be a negative figure on the scale we are facing these days.

Is Western alienation a code word for ‘right wing illiberalism in the west’?

Ha, I hadn't read about this: https://globalnews.ca/news/5952458/preston-manning-alberta-separatism-western-alienation/

The argument is that the government is not pro-pipeline enough, I gather?

Idk, I lived in Regina for two years and. I do get why one would feel alienated out there but not why that alienation seems to take the form that it often does.

I'm starting to feel left out. Is there something Ontario could get alienated about?

i read the platforms and it’s striking how similar they all are, four very cautious centrist parties is an unexpected equilibrium for a parliamentary system. think ill vote for ndp because of the pharmacare proposal. but i would vote for libs if i weren’t in a safe riding, conservatives repealing the carbon tax would be a disaster

I was able to download comprehensive platforms (as a single PDF) from the NDP and Greens (and BQ). Do the Conservatives and Liberals have anything like that? I couldn't find one on either party's website, in English or in French.

Centrist party platforms are pretty ironic right now considering the rhetoric of so many “regular” people has moved into the land where the fringe is conflated with a full half of the middle. I saw a meme on fb today attacking certain current party leaders as false and disloyal to their roots and damn if that wasn’t the most refreshing thing in ages.

(I am glad we have centrist platforms)

Heard a story on the radio about Liberal candidates in diehard blue ridings in AB. Some interesting things: they leave "Team Trudeau" off their signs there and emphasize that voters would be voting for a local candidate who could represent their riding's concerns in the government, not for Trudeau himself. But most startling to me was that it is apparently a somewhat common belief there that the Liberal government spent $4.5B to buy the TransMountain pipeline because they have a hidden agenda to kill the project and ensure that it never gets built.

Would love for that to be true lol

So the election has been officially called and Parliament will be dissolved tomorrow, although we've basically been enduring a campaign already. I hate that we have fixed election dates now.

Oh lol, somehow a tweet from September was at the top of my feed. Fixed election dates still terrible though.

Hm, somehow I missed that we are going ahead with the French university in Ontario after all: https://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle/1289247/uof-entente-universite-ontario-francais-francophone

It's still being planned for Toronto?

Ford confirmed closet francophile.

Great news!

Ha, yeah, Ford strategy seems to be to slash and burn and then recant a little wrt the things where people protest the most (which I think means people with disabilities usually get screwed). Like some weird head game with the public on the provincial scale. I gather the feds stepped in to salvage this one? Interesting to me that Cornwall in Eastern Ontario has also bid to host the university; I could see the case for it.

So apparently they did track Adamson down.

Turned into the French debate. I'm actually glad they're discussing seniors and long-term care. Trudeau did pretty well there imo. Scheer vs Singh on the economy and environment now.

If I'm understanding Scheer, the way to reduce global emissions is to promote the Canadian oil industry and build more pipelines bc Canadian oil is cleaner than those of other countries?

Trudeau's strategy seems to be to ideologically contrast his record with Scheer's proposals, emphasizing Scheer's ties to Ford and Kenney; to mostly ignore Singh; and to stress that the BQ won't get anything done in Opposition.

Blanchette is a v good speaker.

Scheer's 'Corridor Énergetique' is somewhat reminiscent of, um, a National Energy Program.

Trudeau's strategy seems to be to ideologically contrast his record with Scheer's proposals, emphasizing Scheer's ties to Ford and Kenney; to mostly ignore Singh; and to stress that the BQ won't get anything done in Opposition.

Blanchette is a v good speaker.

― All along there is the sound of feedback (Sund4r), Wednesday, October 2, 2019 9:04 PM (forty-four minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Are you talking about the debate or the past 5 years that’s right political joke getting ready for jfl 2020

Ha.

Trudeau vs Blanchet on Quebec's place in Canada was kind of epic.

Was there foreign policy discussion at the debate?

None iirc, though I missed a bit. The topics were immigration and social policy, the environment, the economy, and Quebec/Canada relations iirc. Foreign policy is a scheduled topic for the Oct 7 and Oct 10 debates.

Hm, I never thought about this possible angle before. I do remember we discussed the FIPA when it happened and May was the only leader who brought it up in 2015.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/may/31/justin-trudeau-kinder-morgan-pipeline-china-did-he-fear-being-sued

Or maybe it’s just good practice to keep promises for foreign companies investing in your country, especially in a context with more authoritarians nations that can claim that the leadership will be the same in the next 10 years so projects don’t carry risk.