PMs change and lol we're all gonna die (but brexit will never end)

harder

reread the manifesto section on Brexit, on Labour's website, earlier and don't know if we covered it before but it states 'where immigration has put a strain on public services' which as a statement, even as conditional as it may be in this case (being too generous probably), just should never have been nor continue to be used

In the world of actually trying to get money for things like equal educational opportunities (for example) for people who don't have a pot to piss in, it's completely normal to say, yes, immigration has had an impact on resources. It's how you get, or try to get, MORE resources. I know this from direct experience of a large migration of Somali people into Leicester in the early 2000s when The Netherlands got pretty unpleasant (Pim Fortuyn, ffs, it's like nothing ever changes) . There's a good report by the Open Society (Go Soros!) on this if anyone cares to read it.

No, composite 13 Remain.

2xp

xp could have fooled quite a few of us.

That 5% seems to get you pretty worked up.

Because you’re having a go at people who probably agree with you on 95% of stuff?

― gyac, Monday, September 23, 2019 8:27 PM (four minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Eh?

xp

https://tenor.com/14zU.gif

How Remain should they be? Lib Dem Remain?

― Let them eat Pfifferlinge an Schneckensauce (Tom D.), Monday, September 23, 2019 8:30 PM (two minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Yes. Of course they should. Labour has let LibDem walk away with the remain vote, and they're stuck in the middle now.

That 5% seems to get you pretty worked up.

Understandably so?

Not really, as has been pointed out numerous times, you're in the same position as quite a few people you're railing against itt.

I don't know who's talking to who where anymore (which is prob my fault)

That doesn't make any sense.

xp

FPTP still exists, and as Starmer just said (paraphrasing), “it’s going to be Remain anyway”. People can vote Lib Dems and get hard Brexit or just waste their votes.

Yes. Of course they should. Labour has let LibDem walk away with the remain vote, and they're stuck in the middle now.

We'll see come the election - their current policy is stupid.

Short thread on Labour, Brexit and neutrality.

Labour's position, as I understand it, is:
1) May's deal (currently the only one agreed with the EU) is bad and Labour could negotiate a better one that includes CU, etc.

— Adam Standring (@AdamPolitics) September 23, 2019

thread needs a matt DC post saying "FFS WHY ARE YOU ALL STILL ARGUING ABOUT THIS GIVE YOUR COLLECTIVE HEADS A WOBBLE"

Otm, where are you allcaps Matt?

good thread
xp

@AdamPolitics otm, but needing a twitter user going by the name of "@AdamPolitics" to explain to us all what Labour's position is, is a huge part of the problem imo.

"Labour should be able to walk this, poll over +50"

I'll some of what you are drinking tonight!

*have some of your strong brew obv!

If Labour had claimed remain from the getgo, letting crazy clown BoJo ride the PM-ship for a while should have Labour well over the 50 percent imo.

(drinking rose tbf)

"huge part of the problem imo"

i mean this is true, but almost all of of it is down to the absolutely fucking terrible political reporting we've allowed to develop in this stupid country

I...understand it? They need a credible Leave option for a 2nd ref, so in the (very) likely scenario the country votes leave again, it’s not a total fucking car crash. They’re not putting no deal or the May deal as the option, they are indicating they will negotiate something different. (This almost certainly includes a sea border cos they’re not going to be reliant on DUP votes).

The whole point is that it sits in the context of where the country is now. Labour coming out full Remain now means Boris and the Tories, who have been trying to paint Labour as “antidemocratic” and “ignoring the referendum” for years get their legitimisation for that attack line. Means they fancy their chances nicking a swathe of Lab/Con marginals in Leave areas off them.

The labour policy, though, is to negotiate a new deal in 3 months and have a referendum. Resolve the thing quickly. If I were them I’d be leaning heavily on that aspect.

xp WOW GEE WHIZ WHAT IS THIS CRAZY POSITION NOONE CAN UNDERSTAND, says the broadcaster paid hundreds of thousands a year to explain complicated topics to the public.

I mean if nothing else it’s been patiently explained 1000 times in this thread alone so not sure why anyone here would still need an AdamPolitics

the lab/con marginals in shitholes like doncaster are the tories best chance of winning a majority seeing as they are dead in scotland. Labour going full unequivocally Remain would be a gift to them and their nasty one issue party pals.

gyac v otm

'We want to stay in the EU, so we'll organize a second referendum and officially back Remain, but if Leave wins again, we're going to carry out the will of the British people and negotiate the best possible withdrawal agreement.' I don't get what's so awful about that. It's not as though the NEC statement were without its own set of pitfalls.

i mean this is true, but almost all of of it is down to the absolutely fucking terrible political reporting we've allowed to develop in this stupid country

― mark s, Monday, September 23, 2019 8:49 PM (five minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

This is definitely true, I'll concur.

The whole point is that it sits in the context of where the country is now. Labour coming out full Remain now means Boris and the Tories, who have been trying to paint Labour as “antidemocratic” and “ignoring the referendum” for years get their legitimisation for that attack line. Means they fancy their chances nicking a swathe of Lab/Con marginals in Leave areas off them.

I hear you, I really do, but "where the country is now" is in no small part due to Labour's inability to give clarity in the first place. Labour should've come out full remain in 2016 alredy, "where the country was then". There was a strategic reason too, for not doing so at the time, probably. Point is: there will forever be strategic reasons to do or not do certain things. But people like it most when a political party says what they want, regardless of previous or current status of the land. Imo Labour failed, and is failing, at this.

I mean if nothing else it’s been patiently explained 1000 times in this thread alone so not sure why anyone here would still need an AdamPolitics

― YouGov to see it (wins), Monday, September 23, 2019 8:54 PM (eight minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Otm. And yet these explanations (dixit @adampolitics "Labours position, as I understand it, is") seem in high demand...

if labour had come out full remain in 2016, we would be outside the EU already

I don't buy that at all. Would it somehow have been easier for May to get the WA through? Labour still would've voted against it.

yes - significantly easier to get your bills through when you have a 30+ majority

Kind of annoying that when I tried to explain how my ambivalence about EU was not really about freedom of movement, people responded by saying those who expressed that opinion were tilting at windmills because everyone fundamentally agreed with that position here and then

Sorry that you feel citizenship from a country that is increasingly openly demonized by brexiteers is not like purely abject enough for you. And sorry that we're skeptical that "brexit is bollocks" position doesn't really shore up our anxiety about where this is going.

Btw I'm running a high fever so come at me

<3 plaxico

Good luck with that fever and take care of yourself.

Get off my ceiling

shocking stuff has just been messaged to me from a labour MP at conference. hard to believe this pic.twitter.com/maiqdS2q2e

— kombucha_fan420 (@internetratbag) September 23, 2019

labour's policy is the only one that makes any sense. it's the only one that holds out any possibility of some sort of reconciliation of divergent, dug-in positions rather than reinforcing all the reductive framing of diametrical opponents pitted against one another wherein half of referendum voters are conclusively just wrong/stupid/evil.

my brain literally read the word 'windmills' in that plaxico post and inserted a hallucinatory 'jolyon' next to it fyi

beautifully put conrad.

It’s Leader. https://t.co/h7tmMWOH7m

— Mike Gapes (@MikeGapes) September 23, 2019

It’s extremely sad how all these guys just spend their time retweeting bad Labour news & qting former colleagues - seems unhealthily obsessive. You see this even with some who left the party years ago.

brainworms are real right

Actually dying at the replies to that, brutal

committing to have a second referendum six months after a GE seems bad

hook it into my veins

A Labour MP gets in touch following the conference Brexit votes. pic.twitter.com/MX3s9fjMsK

— Kevin Schofield (@PolhomeEditor) September 23, 2019

kevin schofield is a cheroot huffing xunt