Most Remainers would have happily taken the current Labour position even a year ago, it's just a wedge issue for the anti-Corbyn factions now, as well as point of distinction in what is already looking like an extended leadership hustings.
It doesn't make any difference what Corbyn thinks about Brexit as long as follows a genuinely democratic path on the issue. It might actually be better for him to sit any referendum campaign out but there'll be a circus around him either way.
― Matt DC, Monday, 23 September 2019 10:30 (four years ago) link
What the party leader thinks makes a difference by default.
― pomenitul, Monday, 23 September 2019 10:34 (four years ago) link
In the event of a referendum how does it make a differ-- oh who gives a shit life's too short.
― Matt DC, Monday, 23 September 2019 10:42 (four years ago) link
Influence? You're right, though, who gives a shit.
― pomenitul, Monday, 23 September 2019 10:44 (four years ago) link
It's your country, after all, not mine. As has been repeatedly made clear.
as long as follows a genuinely democratic path on the issue
approach to this decision looks to be a shambles going from jon lansman’s tweets on the matter
― stoffle (||||||||), Monday, 23 September 2019 10:49 (four years ago) link
It’s inevitable when you’ve got a massive party representing lots of interests.
― gyac, Monday, 23 September 2019 10:50 (four years ago) link
shambles sounds like democracy
― ogmor, Monday, 23 September 2019 10:54 (four years ago) link
― pomenitul, Monday, 23 September 2019 bookmarkflaglink
Labour is membership lead. Not to say it doesn't matter but there are more tensions between PLP and the members.
― xyzzzz__, Monday, 23 September 2019 11:23 (four years ago) link
mcd's conference speech appears to be a barnstormer
― Is it true the star Beetle Juice is going to explode in 2012 (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 23 September 2019 11:24 (four years ago) link
what's it like when you turn the sound up tho
― mark s, Monday, 23 September 2019 11:27 (four years ago) link
watching things with the sound up is the old politics, i'm reading on the grauniad's livestream like a true centrist
― Is it true the star Beetle Juice is going to explode in 2012 (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 23 September 2019 11:30 (four years ago) link
Fair. I do agree that it's a bigger deal at the other end of the political spectrum.
― pomenitul, Monday, 23 September 2019 11:42 (four years ago) link
32-hour week? I’m gonna need to work harder in this socialist utopia wtf
― stet, Monday, 23 September 2019 11:45 (four years ago) link
Still too long tbf
― Let them eat Pfifferlinge an Schneckensauce (Tom D.), Monday, 23 September 2019 11:47 (four years ago) link
Is that allowing for tea breaks?
― funnel spider ESA (Matt #2), Monday, 23 September 2019 11:48 (four years ago) link
29h in the Netherlands so it's no pie-in-the-sky proposal. Which gives the lie to the Protestant ethic, somewhat.
― pomenitul, Monday, 23 September 2019 11:50 (four years ago) link
lot of good policies announced this week - next manifesto will be 👌🏻👌🏻👌🏻
― stoffle (||||||||), Monday, 23 September 2019 11:51 (four years ago) link
Camilla Tominey having a meltdown about ‘abolishing’ private schools on Politics Live, Laura Pidcock wondering if she has personal reasons for that, LOL.
― coup de twat (suzy), Monday, 23 September 2019 11:58 (four years ago) link
hi i'm ed conway of sky news and i don't understand what the word 'most' means
John McDonnell claims UK workers work longer hours than most other countries but I’d be v wary of this claim. OECD recently found it had been overstating the UK numbers. Actually the avg UK worker works fewer hours (38.4 hrs a wk) than the French (39) and the Americans (39.4)— Ed Conway (@EdConwaySky) September 23, 2019
― Is it true the star Beetle Juice is going to explode in 2012 (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 23 September 2019 12:01 (four years ago) link
for those on here who think freedom of movement for EU citizens is a worthwhile sacrifice for whatever benefits your Lexit will have, do you do so because you think British jobs should be for British people, rather than foreigners? or do you do so because you think immigration from outside the EU will benefit Britain more than than EU immigration does?
― L'assie (Euler), Monday, 23 September 2019 12:02 (four years ago) link
has anyone here expressed any positive opinion about ending freedom of movement?
― Is it true the star Beetle Juice is going to explode in 2012 (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 23 September 2019 12:03 (four years ago) link
Indirectly, yes.
― pomenitul, Monday, 23 September 2019 12:04 (four years ago) link
jamie vardy iirc
― imago, Monday, 23 September 2019 12:05 (four years ago) link
I didn’t know we even had any Lexiteers here, it’s a busted flush
― gyac, Monday, 23 September 2019 12:07 (four years ago) link
there only about 30 in the entire country tbf
― stoffle (||||||||), Monday, 23 September 2019 12:09 (four years ago) link
and in the media? grace blakely, I guess. larry elliott?
― stoffle (||||||||), Monday, 23 September 2019 12:10 (four years ago) link
tariq ali lol
― mark s, Monday, 23 September 2019 12:10 (four years ago) link
who posts here as mr snrub
sadly lexiters have been chased off ilx by our groupthink. funnily enough the place I've met most of them have been through labour and unison
― ogmor, Monday, 23 September 2019 12:18 (four years ago) link
Even Comrade Alphabet is a Remainer!
― Let them eat Pfifferlinge an Schneckensauce (Tom D.), Monday, 23 September 2019 12:20 (four years ago) link
always quite lol seeing commentators sneer at jeremy corbyn and angela rayner's school exam results. all those As and all it's got you is a telegraph column nobody reads— tyron, the creator (@TyronWilson) September 23, 2019
― gyac, Monday, 23 September 2019 12:21 (four years ago) link
If you consider a WA preferable to burning corpse piles and scurvy - that doesn't make you a Lexiter does it?
― calzino, Monday, 23 September 2019 12:22 (four years ago) link
Yeah Euler is going to have to come back & explain that cos otherwise we could be at this all day instead of discussing Johnny Mc and the SUPREME COURT RULING AT 10.30 TOMORROW
― gyac, Monday, 23 September 2019 12:30 (four years ago) link
Euler and Pom think support for Corbyn is indirect support for ending freedom of movement because St Jezza won't do what The Guardian says.
― xyzzzz__, Monday, 23 September 2019 12:34 (four years ago) link
I presume there has to be some autarkic fantasy element to your brexit to be a lexiter. like those myopic brexit voting fishermen who were told there would be so many fish they'd be jumping into their nets after we've left the EU!
― calzino, Monday, 23 September 2019 12:35 (four years ago) link
Johnny Mc gave a p fine speech from where I'm sitting and (half) listening imo.
― Le Bateau Ivre, Monday, 23 September 2019 12:35 (four years ago) link
I'm frankly tired of this topic and doubt anyone's opinion has budged either way. From where I'm standing, many (most?) of you are insufficiently pro-Remain, as is Jeremy Corbyn himself, which is somewhat understandable when free movement doesn't concern you personally in the here and now, including if you're an EU national who has acquired UK citizenship or settled status. But I support Labour's domestic policies and believe Labour to be our best shot a second ref. Just don't expect me to muster any enthusiasm for the head honcho, because he has shown no interest in speaking for me. So ILX's hagiographical bent is quite unpleasant in that regard.
But, like gyac said, at this point there are more pressing matters to discuss.
― pomenitul, Monday, 23 September 2019 12:36 (four years ago) link
I was thinking about Corbyn's observation yesterday that he doesn't presume a deal would be better than remain, and wondering how EU freedom of movement fits into his thinking about a deal. On this the 2017 manifesto was clear: "Freedom of movement will end when we leave the European Union." Given the uniform support for Labour on this thread, I wanted to see how posters here thought about freedom of movement, in particular on what good there would be in ending it as the manifesto declares is to happen should Labour win.
― L'assie (Euler), Monday, 23 September 2019 12:40 (four years ago) link
the_remainer_judger has logged on
― Is it true the star Beetle Juice is going to explode in 2012 (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 23 September 2019 12:42 (four years ago) link
There is no 'hagiographical bent', but you seem to need to believe there is, so carry on, it's of a piece with your habit of misrepresenting what people are saying.
― Let them eat Pfifferlinge an Schneckensauce (Tom D.), Monday, 23 September 2019 12:43 (four years ago) link
For the absolute!last!time!on this!- you are not the only foreigner itt- the government is literally deporting black and brown citizens, so don’t act like anyone is cavalier towards this country’s utterly fucked up immigration policies- there is no actual existing Labour deal so there is no point in getting mad about anything at this point in time- did I mention how even the “least foreign” of us have to live under the government defending their soldiers using the hollowed out skulls of Irish citizens as ashtrays or stripping Irish citizens from NI of their rights?- the last labour leader was the son of two holocaust refugees and yet he still found himself putting out the infamous “controls on immigration” mug.- I’m not sure exactly what I or anyone would need to do to be sufficiently remain enough? Stop slagging off the EU?
― gyac, Monday, 23 September 2019 12:44 (four years ago) link
I am unequivocally pro-FOM fwiw and think the leadership should be full throated in its support. while I think there are issues around the posted workers directive, JC and co have been a little cute in the purely factual statement quoted above. I also have issues w some of the dogwhistling they have done in this area
there are some indications yesterday in some of what DA was saying that the leadership may take a more forthright/positive position on this
― stoffle (||||||||), Monday, 23 September 2019 12:45 (four years ago) link
Dialogue de sourds.
― pomenitul, Monday, 23 September 2019 12:46 (four years ago) link
tl;dr but while you are largely right that discourse on immigration is totally fucked, that’s not the case itt and it’s not the case in terms of Corbyn’s personal beliefs either. The repeated focus on his “support for the IRA” is explicitly meant to imply that he likes the foreigners a bit TOO much, ffs
― gyac, Monday, 23 September 2019 12:46 (four years ago) link
er, I meant that Corbyn said he doesn't presume remain would be better than a deal.
― L'assie (Euler), Monday, 23 September 2019 12:46 (four years ago) link
he hasn’t negotiated a deal yet. why second guess things. hypothetically, what would happen if he negotiated a deal where we get 10 vetoes and a hundredty billion added to the rebate? now, that is unlikely so I think you can work out where labour will probably end up /enilythornberrywelltherewego.png
― stoffle (||||||||), Monday, 23 September 2019 12:48 (four years ago) link
That's odd, I thought the weekly discussion about the people itt was scheduled for tomorrow?
― Le Bateau Ivre, Monday, 23 September 2019 12:52 (four years ago) link
xxxps great contribution, thanks
― gyac, Monday, 23 September 2019 12:55 (four years ago) link
I'm not interested in a discussion *about* the people in this thread, I'm interested in hearing what people in this thread think about a difficult issue. this is to prod a discussion. I'll meta if people want to meta me, but otherwise that's not my interest.
― L'assie (Euler), Monday, 23 September 2019 12:56 (four years ago) link