PMs change and lol we're all gonna die (but brexit will never end)

Somehow, centrism is good not bad when it comes to Brexit.

or alternatively the best route towards remain or the least worst WA doesn't lie thru painting your face blue and shouting "THEY WILL NEVER TAKE OUR EUDOM" at the top of your lungs

Note how free movement isn't even one of the 'five pillars' of Corbyn's alternate deal with the EU. Truly my enthusiasm for this potentially better option knows no bounds.

see the private school defenders have logged on, with their callipers out already

Nah, I’m state educated at the US equivalent to a well-resourced comprehensive in a leafy but all-walks-of-life suburb. We sent as many graduates to top universities as the local private schools. In my childhood the only people going private in my relatively egalitarian suburb were a) at fee-paying Catholic schools or b) behavioural cases whose parents felt private = strict.

I haven’t looked at Twitter yet but I’m imagining a lot of privately educated RW commentators and gammons dogpiling Diane Abbott for taking her kid private.

Most Remainers would have happily taken the current Labour position even a year ago, it's just a wedge issue for the anti-Corbyn factions now, as well as point of distinction in what is already looking like an extended leadership hustings.

It doesn't make any difference what Corbyn thinks about Brexit as long as follows a genuinely democratic path on the issue. It might actually be better for him to sit any referendum campaign out but there'll be a circus around him either way.

What the party leader thinks makes a difference by default.

In the event of a referendum how does it make a differ-- oh who gives a shit life's too short.

Influence? You're right, though, who gives a shit.

It's your country, after all, not mine. As has been repeatedly made clear.

as long as follows a genuinely democratic path on the issue

approach to this decision looks to be a shambles going from jon lansman’s tweets on the matter

It’s inevitable when you’ve got a massive party representing lots of interests.

shambles sounds like democracy

What the party leader thinks makes a difference by default.

― pomenitul, Monday, 23 September 2019 bookmarkflaglink

Labour is membership lead. Not to say it doesn't matter but there are more tensions between PLP and the members.

mcd's conference speech appears to be a barnstormer

what's it like when you turn the sound up tho

watching things with the sound up is the old politics, i'm reading on the grauniad's livestream like a true centrist

Labour is membership lead. Not to say it doesn't matter but there are more tensions between PLP and the members.

Fair. I do agree that it's a bigger deal at the other end of the political spectrum.

32-hour week? I’m gonna need to work harder in this socialist utopia wtf

Still too long tbf

Is that allowing for tea breaks?

29h in the Netherlands so it's no pie-in-the-sky proposal. Which gives the lie to the Protestant ethic, somewhat.

lot of good policies announced this week - next manifesto will be 👌🏻👌🏻👌🏻

Camilla Tominey having a meltdown about ‘abolishing’ private schools on Politics Live, Laura Pidcock wondering if she has personal reasons for that, LOL.

hi i'm ed conway of sky news and i don't understand what the word 'most' means

John McDonnell claims UK workers work longer hours than most other countries but I’d be v wary of this claim. OECD recently found it had been overstating the UK numbers. Actually the avg UK worker works fewer hours (38.4 hrs a wk) than the French (39) and the Americans (39.4)

— Ed Conway (@EdConwaySky) September 23, 2019

for those on here who think freedom of movement for EU citizens is a worthwhile sacrifice for whatever benefits your Lexit will have, do you do so because you think British jobs should be for British people, rather than foreigners? or do you do so because you think immigration from outside the EU will benefit Britain more than than EU immigration does?

has anyone here expressed any positive opinion about ending freedom of movement?

Indirectly, yes.

jamie vardy iirc

I didn’t know we even had any Lexiteers here, it’s a busted flush

there only about 30 in the entire country tbf

and in the media? grace blakely, I guess. larry elliott?

tariq ali lol

who posts here as mr snrub

sadly lexiters have been chased off ilx by our groupthink. funnily enough the place I've met most of them have been through labour and unison

Even Comrade Alphabet is a Remainer!

always quite lol seeing commentators sneer at jeremy corbyn and angela rayner's school exam results. all those As and all it's got you is a telegraph column nobody reads

— tyron, the creator (@TyronWilson) September 23, 2019

If you consider a WA preferable to burning corpse piles and scurvy - that doesn't make you a Lexiter does it?

Yeah Euler is going to have to come back & explain that cos otherwise we could be at this all day instead of discussing Johnny Mc and the SUPREME COURT RULING AT 10.30 TOMORROW

Euler and Pom think support for Corbyn is indirect support for ending freedom of movement because St Jezza won't do what The Guardian says.

I presume there has to be some autarkic fantasy element to your brexit to be a lexiter. like those myopic brexit voting fishermen who were told there would be so many fish they'd be jumping into their nets after we've left the EU!

Johnny Mc gave a p fine speech from where I'm sitting and (half) listening imo.

I'm frankly tired of this topic and doubt anyone's opinion has budged either way. From where I'm standing, many (most?) of you are insufficiently pro-Remain, as is Jeremy Corbyn himself, which is somewhat understandable when free movement doesn't concern you personally in the here and now, including if you're an EU national who has acquired UK citizenship or settled status. But I support Labour's domestic policies and believe Labour to be our best shot a second ref. Just don't expect me to muster any enthusiasm for the head honcho, because he has shown no interest in speaking for me. So ILX's hagiographical bent is quite unpleasant in that regard.

But, like gyac said, at this point there are more pressing matters to discuss.

I was thinking about Corbyn's observation yesterday that he doesn't presume a deal would be better than remain, and wondering how EU freedom of movement fits into his thinking about a deal. On this the 2017 manifesto was clear: "Freedom of movement will end when we leave the European Union." Given the uniform support for Labour on this thread, I wanted to see how posters here thought about freedom of movement, in particular on what good there would be in ending it as the manifesto declares is to happen should Labour win.

the_remainer_judger has logged on

There is no 'hagiographical bent', but you seem to need to believe there is, so carry on, it's of a piece with your habit of misrepresenting what people are saying.

For the absolute!last!time!on this!

- you are not the only foreigner itt
- the government is literally deporting black and brown citizens, so don’t act like anyone is cavalier towards this country’s utterly fucked up immigration policies
- there is no actual existing Labour deal so there is no point in getting mad about anything at this point in time
- did I mention how even the “least foreign” of us have to live under the government defending their soldiers using the hollowed out skulls of Irish citizens as ashtrays or stripping Irish citizens from NI of their rights?
- the last labour leader was the son of two holocaust refugees and yet he still found himself putting out the infamous “controls on immigration” mug.
- I’m not sure exactly what I or anyone would need to do to be sufficiently remain enough? Stop slagging off the EU?

I am unequivocally pro-FOM fwiw and think the leadership should be full throated in its support. while I think there are issues around the posted workers directive, JC and co have been a little cute in the purely factual statement quoted above. I also have issues w some of the dogwhistling they have done in this area

there are some indications yesterday in some of what DA was saying that the leadership may take a more forthright/positive position on this

Dialogue de sourds.

tl;dr but while you are largely right that discourse on immigration is totally fucked, that’s not the case itt and it’s not the case in terms of Corbyn’s personal beliefs either. The repeated focus on his “support for the IRA” is explicitly meant to imply that he likes the foreigners a bit TOO much, ffs