2020 Democratic presidential primary

Sure, if we keep electing people who applaud for fascists!

idk I’m pretty online and I see as much vitriol and weird bad faith characterizations of Bernie and his supporters by more mainstream libs as I do the other way (and yes, they definitely do go the other way).

add to that the indisputable bias against Sanders by the lib media and I can understand why Sanders supporters feel the need to scream online.

similar to what Eugene McCarthy supporters felt about Bobby Kennedy?

Yes, but mostly his early passionate supporters, the ones who busted their asses doing the grassroots organizing and going door-to-door. They felt that RFK was stepping in and stealing their stunning accomplishment of knocking out LBJ, which was largely correct.

The analogy would hold more water if Warren had stepped into the 2016 race after Iowa and New Hampshire had revealed Clinton's vulnerability. Also, Warren started this year's race with much less name-familiarity than Bernie, which (to understate it) was not an obstacle for RFK.

I posted this in the Bernie thread: he's working to improve his abysmal 2016 showing in SC.

Mostly mopping up after a shitty predecessor, maybe a major legislative achievement or two, then losing a ton of seats in midterm and pivoting to competent management

wonder what would happen next

anyway, they’re my adopted parents now and I shan’t countenance any badmouthing of mom or dad pls thank you

if we keep electing people who applaud for fascists!

elections are hell, aren't they? btw, I don't think that clapping or not clapping is at the root of the problem.

From my perspective they are not the Same at all. Warren is definitely superior to what would have passed as a left leaning democrat in previous cycles, but Sanders represents something else all together, it’s a once in a generational opportunity to have a democratic socialist leading an actual grassroots movement with this level of popularity on the national stage.

Yes, but mostly his early passionate supporters, the ones who busted their asses doing the grassroots organizing and going door-to-door. They felt that RFK was stepping in and stealing their stunning accomplishment of knocking out LBJ, which was largely correct.

I remember reading/seeing something where there were major complaints from McCarthy supporters that RFK appropriated some of Gene's policies, and that he wasn't authentically progressive considering his work for Joe McCarthy and the red baiting/HUAC stuff

I was being flippant re: clapping because I'm reading a lot of remarks about how a better world is not possible, so there's no reason to bother with anyone who wants to make things better. It's a reactionary perspective.

I think a better world is possible, I think socialism won’t make things better is all.

it’s a once in a generational opportunity to have a democratic socialist leading an actual grassroots movement with this level of popularity on the national stage

yup. and the best way to build up that grassroots popularity is to complain bitterly about the perfidy or stupidity of any voters who support another candidate. this is a highly attractive strategy that always works in changing those voters' minds.

Lol aimless otm

Also it's not an once in a generation opportunity. There's young politicians to take up the mantle, like AOC.

To me Warren's bonafides are obvious: accomplishments in regulatory agencies, bankrupt reform, and in the Senate that earned her the loathing of the Obama claque matched by a mastery of policy detail and -- a huge deal -- an ability to explain those details in normal people terms in a roomful of four people or at the stump before ten thousand.

She's my pick at the moment, followed by Sanders. But I don't regard her or anyone as indispensable.

*bankruptcy

by contrast, Biden's involvement in 'bankruptcy reform' was a huge win for corporations and a disaster for ordinary people

best way to build up that grassroots popularity is to complain bitterly about the perfidy or stupidity of any voters who support another candidate

segments of the rabble have ALWAYS done this

"politics ain't beanbag"

most politically engaged ppl don't do this

I think a better world is possible, I think socialism won’t make things better is all.

but Sanders represents something else all together, it’s a once in a generational opportunity to have a democratic socialist leading an actual grassroots movement with this level of popularity on the national stage.

And then...do what?

build a just and survivable future

or just eat the rich

Surely as much as obama. At the very least.

are you asking me what sander’s policy proposals are?

I believe he's asking what Sanders is going to do that is uniquely specific to him

push for single payer

As for Hunter Biden, I don't think he is a terribly good business operator. There are things that get in the way of that. Obama himself worried he'd be a liability. But anyway, he's a black hole and they'll make him a one-man Clinton Foundation if it comes to it.

— Richard M. Nixon (@dick_nixon) September 20, 2019

xpost he'll keep talking, with a platform where more people can hear him

a scenario where the actual president shows up at labor strikes. It would mean that the msm is basically forced to reckon daily with an ideology that’s been choked out of the mainstream for well over half a century. in many ways Dem socialism would have to be “normalized” in the same way that Trump’s insane tendencies and rhetoric have kind of been over the last three years. This is a good thing, in my humble opinion. One of Obama’s biggest mistakes was leaving the organization and energy he built during the campaign to kind rot

Both Sanders and Warren would be constrained by congress, but Bernie's response would be to point out exactly why popular policies are being stymied and use the bully pulpit to whip up mass mobilization.

I imagine any president's Warren's response would be to compromise on her policies and then rationalize the compromise as the best possible outcome.
The appeal of both Warren and Sanders, for me, is that the inevitable compromises won't be as awful as ones of past Democratic presidents (e.g. Obama, Clinton)

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/5ZqYuMBJmcY/maxresdefault.jpg

I agree that the west needs ro get rid of freshwater economics and rampant racism, but there is nothing in the small blip that is socialism history to suggest these theories would be more effective to combat imperialism, climate change and poverty. The top ten most progressive countries today are closer to Wealth of Nations than marxism in model, and so is Bernie, who is merely a keynesian worried of modern externalities. (The demagoguery and populism is what I dislike.)

Xpost will

My favorite after-effect of the Obama presidency is that a white was telling me an incredibly adorable story about a conversation they had with their child during his presidency where the child was curious as to why the President was always black. There's a significant imprinting impact there that shouldn't be ignored.

I disagree with President Nixon. Biden by this point can use the memory of the dead Beau to his advantage ("What, you people are coming after ANOTHER ONE OF MY SONS? How DARE you?").

build a just and survivable future

or just eat the rich

― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Friday, September 20, 2019 2:15 PM (twenty-one seconds ago) bookmarkflaglink

My point is that Warren aims for the same, and both would face the same constraints once in office. You can argue that Bernie is more electable -- and I might entertain that argument -- but I struggle to see a dramatically different outcome between the administrations of Pres. Sanders and Pres. Warren.

I am not sure why people are convinced that Warren is more likely to compromise on her policies/principles than Sanders

For me it really comes down to Bernie being SUPER strident, outspoken, and consistent with his ideology, policy positions, and rhetoric across his entire lifetime. If he gets pushback, he is going to fight it loudly.

Purity ponies.

xxxpost Yeah all Biden has to do is get angry and shed a tear and the media will say "Story over!"

Bernie has been saying the same stuff for 40+ years.

Warren was a registered Republican til 1996.

And...?

If that's the best argument you have, you are 100% full of shit

I struggle to see a dramatically different outcome between the administrations of Pres. Sanders and Pres. Warren.

we all struggle to see anything. the future is a crapshoot. we have NO IDEA of the context, the way the crises will escalate, the nature of the fallout.

She's such a Republican that both parties hated her for working on bankruptcy reform during the Dubya years.

xxxp Which was...23 years ago.

Warren's DNA thing was a stupid unforced error. She's a "capitalist to her bones." Enough for me.

Yeah the republicans were great back then

lol I'm sure the New Right harbored this much suspicion about Reagan the former Democrat in 1980.

Warren (again, whom I support), has more of a tendency to be vague about certain big ticket items (M4A). I think a lot of folks equate that with the kind of slipperiness we’ve seen in otherwise “good” candidates in the past. With Bernie there’s an authenticity factor that clearly resonates with people. Whether or not he can actually deliver any better will be the big question.

Biden getting into a disagreement with a voter over his healthcare plan. She says his plan is protecting insurance companies’ profits. He questions whether she would pay higher taxes for it. She says yes. He responds: “You got the right candidate in Bernie.”

— Tyler Pager (@tylerpager) September 20, 2019

lmao

Warren's DNA thing was a stupid unforced error. She's a "capitalist to her bones."

actually the test came back only 3% capitalist

It's September 2019. We'll see a heap of stupid unforced errors from everyone through Election Day.

Luke 15:7 says there's more joy in heaven over one repentant sinner than over 99 people who didn't need to repent. Smart dude, Luke.