2020 Democratic presidential primary

It's a miracle the US hasn't already fallen into a 3+ party right/left/center-left (with the conservative party usually defeating the divided left) holding pattern already. If we don't get rid of FPTP voting I don't see how it's not inevitable.

it's not a miracle, it's a function of the Constitution that two parties dominate

I mean, 1924, 1968, 1992 and '96. Obviously it's not always right/left/center-left but one or the other of the two parties get divided and conquered in US presidential elections all the time

everything gets dumber by the day pic.twitter.com/sHgSzRELzV

— Garbage 🦍 (@GarbageApe) September 20, 2019

there have been party realignments but it's always settled back into a two-party axis. and what's happening now isn't splitting either party, it's reinforcing them.

FPTP is the main thing preventing a long-term multiparty system!

We are back to the party alignments and partisanship of the post-Reconstruction era, and that's cool

I suspect a Bernie admin involves a scenario where the actual president shows up at labor strikes. It would mean that the msm is basically forced to reckon daily with an ideology that’s been choked out of the mainstream for well over half a century. in many ways Dem socialism would have to be “normalized” in the same way that Trump’s insane tendencies and rhetoric have kind of been over the last three years. This is a good thing, in my humble opinion. One of Obama’s biggest mistakes was leaving the organization and energy he built during the campaign to kind rot. Lots of things you can say about Trump, but he/ his people have certainly understood the power of the never-ending campaign. I can’t say which what be the case in this regard with a Warren admin.

I’ve given money to both Sanders and Warren. There are things that I really, really like—and things with which I’m less than thrilled—about both candidates. But I’ll say it again: I can not imagine being a legitimately left-leaning Democrat in 2019 and being upset by anything Bernie believes. Presentation? Sure. Totally fair.

Well, maybe his declining to get rid of the filibuster. That’s fucking stupid.

Bernie Presidency would be like no other if the elites don't off him
Warren Presidency would be like Obama's

fixed that for you Keyes

I don't think Sanders can lead the party or Congress, there would def be shades of Carter

I said Bernie's would be like Carter's because congressional Dems would feel free to oppose him

^^^

Morbius is being cutely wrong again, unless he confused Harris for Warren

That said, I expect Warren to abandon health care covering illegal immigrants and offering Medicare If You Want It before Iowa.

Sotosyn, the original Obama comparison was Keyes' but I agree with it. O ominously and truthfully said "I love markets."

great let's have a president who meets the rigorous standards of Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer so i can embrace death

Yet The Markets are terrified of Warren

just as they thought Obama wasn't sucking them off enthusiastically enough

At this sainted moment the Wall Street Gods, confident that Sanders has no chance, have aimed their fire at her.

It's like you forget the CFPB existed. She's way more radical than O.

very much agreed that she’s absolutely and unapologetically to Obama’s left

Sanders has no desire to change the essential nature of markets, Morbs.

She's way more radical than O.
very much agreed that she’s absolutely and unapologetically to Obama’s left

For now. You have seen presidents before, right?

I know he's not European, VHS.

will otm, Bernie's rhetoric and focus on movement building would set his presidency apart. Both Sanders and Warren would be constrained by congress, but Bernie's response would be to point out exactly why popular policies are being stymied and use the bully pulpit to whip up mass mobilization. I imagine Warren's response would be to compromise on her policies and then rationalize the compromise as the best possible outcome.

I imagine any president'sWarren's response would be to compromise on her policies and then rationalize the compromise as the best possible outcome.

Markets are not essentially different in Europe, Denmark is mostly a free market with free trade agreements, just more regulations and redistribution of wealth. I welcome Warren sincerity on capitalism.

It's not like i don't think we're still doomed if Sanders is elected. We are.

The appeal of both Warren and Sanders, for me, is that the inevitable compromises won't be as awful as ones of past Democratic presidents (e.g. Obama, Clinton)

I wonder how Sanders is going to whip mass mobilization vs congress when he can’t even lead his own party in two primaries.

Also, separation of powers is a key democratic principle so the executive power using mass mobilization to interfere with the other two branches is just plain dangerous and I don’t welcome such ideas.

For now. You have seen presidents before, right?

Ha ha. Love how Morbs' unassailable "everyone gets corrupted" logic applies to everyone except Saint Bernie, who would be "like no other if the elites don't off him." He cannot fail, he can only be failed. We are merely the unworthy vessels of His will.

It's not like i don't think we're still doomed if Sanders is elected. We are.

Mmm, and there's the real good stuff...

Also, separation of powers is a key democratic principle so the executive power using mass mobilization to interfere with the other two branches is just plain dangerous and I don’t welcome such ideas.

I'm sorry, but this is silly. Mass mobilization is far more directly democratic in nature than the power brokering that happens between elected representatives. If huge masses of people convince their representatives to follow their will rather than the will of the representatives' parties or donors, then that's more democratic, not less.

mass mobilization to interfere with the other two branches is just plain dangerous

there are elections every two years where the masses may be effectively mobilized, and these are not deemed to be "interference" with the legislative branch. if you are imagining Bernie personally staging mass 'direct action' events against Congress, I think your imagination is jumping the track.

like Perrin, i believe in Sanders (to the extent i do) as a catalyst. Fuck off with sainthood.

those other two branches of guvmint are determined to lead us right into Waterworld.

sux how both Bernie and Warren would be replaced by GOP Senators, good work VT/MA

Warren is definitely to the left of Warren but I think her Presidency would play out similarly. Mostly mopping up after a shitty predecessor, maybe a major legislative achievement or two, then losing a ton of seats in midterm and pivoting to competent management

To the left of Obama

Warren is to the right of Warren actually

if you are imagining Bernie personally staging mass 'direct action' events against Congress, I think your imagination is jumping the track.

He'll knock the halls of Congress down like Samson destroying the temple, with nothing but the force of his exasperated groans!

bernie hair strong, bernie like bull

Both Sanders and Warren would be constrained by congress, but Bernie's response would be to point out exactly why popular policies are being stymied and use the bully pulpit to whip up mass mobilization

I don’t think I’m jumping track here

the bully pulpit doesn't work anymore. It only whips up your base, period.

yup. the shine has come off the presidency.

use the bully pulpit to whip up mass mobilization

In the USA in my lifetime, the only issues that whipped up mass mobilizations that took their grievances to the streets were the civil rights and anti-war movements. The various civil rights mobilizations all took decades of dedicated perseverance to bear useful fruit and the anti-war movements mostly failed.

Before my lifetime, Cox's Army also mostly failed. The unionization for workers movement took half a century.

Practically speaking, I don't think that Sanders and Warren are as far apart as either of their supporters think. Their policies seem fairly similar, with differences coming down mostly to framing, style/personality, and perceptions of ideological purity. Sanders supporters may find Warren's "capitalist to my bones" rhetoric inherently disqualifying, but I don't think it would actually make a meaningful difference in her approach to governing (versus Bernie's). I don't see her as more likely to compromise on her policies; to the contrary, she strikes me as somewhat savvier than Sanders in her ability to enact them.

MY SECRET PLAN TO DESTROY SOCIAL MEDIA WILL RESTORE THE BULLY PULPIT

Practically speaking, I don't think that Sanders and Warren are as far apart as either of their supporters think.

They're not, hence this argument about WHO GOT THERE FIRST and SHE'S A SECRET AGENT.

The attempts by Jacobin mag types to portray Warren as a new Clinton quasi-neoliberal says much more about a specific section of Sanders supporters than Warren herself.

they even created that Warren standing O for Trump, obviously

And in being more interested in narratives and wedges than policy making, it also says more about media culture than political practice and leadership, even in the confines of leftist media.

Warren standing O for Trump

What did Trump say that Warren was standing for and applauding? Maybe it was something I'd also enthusiastically agree with.