Is this anti-semitism?

I don't hear "Jew" used as a verb in the UK but especially decades back as a schoolkid it would be commonly used as an antisemitic noun

I think use of 'jew' as a verb is relatively recent. never heard it in the UK except in the high-nonsense 'jew-arsed' to refer to when someone makes a joint a bit wet on their toke, which I might guess was originally dew-arsed

I've thankfully never heard anyone use the phrase 'Jew down', whether in Canada or the UK, although 'gyp' is still quite common in the former as far as I can tell. It's not always used with malicious intent, however, as most people appear to be blissfully unaware of its (possible? likely?) etymology.

Incidentally, I've never encountered 'to welsh' in the wild either.

Welsh/welch fairly common in the US. See also: Jerry-built.

xp I’ve heard “gyp” and its derivatives a lot, admittedly more in Ireland than here. Remember being surprised hearing it on the Simpsons once.

How quickly we forget the big stink when Michael Jackson used the phrase "Jew me, sue me" in "They Don't Care About Us" back in 1995. (Whole line was "Jew me, sue me, everybody do me/ Kick me, kike me, don't you black or white me.") I've never heard "Jew" as a verb in the real world, as far as I know, but I know people use it.

Welsh/welch, I only hear in, like, gangster movies. "Welch on a deal" or whatever.

People my company has done business with have used Jew as a verb with us on phone calls + stuff.

people were a bit more angry about the "kike me" line with MJ iirc; he claimed he had no idea it was offensive

I dunno, the Jew me, sue me bit was hardly overlooked.

He got cancelled for ages because of that line.

At any rate, most gentiles I know use ‘Jewish’ rather than ‘Jew’ to avoid sounding in any way pejorative.

Jew as a noun is not inherently antisemitic imo

I know that, but if you grow up in a town that’s 40 per cent Red Sea Pedestrians, you don’t want to sound like the schmucks from the next town over who *do* use it as a pejorative.

"I'm a Jew" basically only non-pejorative. "He's a Jew" probably okay but mildly uncomfortable especially since "He's Jewish" is sitting right there. "He's got a Jew nose," definitely antisemitic. "Don't Jew me," also definitely antisemitic."

basically:
noun = okay
adjective/verb = likely anti-semitic
adverb = you're doing it wrong
preposition = likely cleft palate

lol yes

I guess I'm mostly used to hearing the noun usage collectively amongst ourselves ("As Jews...", "a good Jew" etc.)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mLIS7qAWeaA

https://forward.com/opinion/433082/i-was-protested-at-bard-college-for-being-a-jew/

https://forward.com/opinion/letters/433122/letter-to-the-editor-i-organized-the-bard-conference-and-batya-ungar/

https://forward.com/opinion/letters/433145/i-was-misrepresented-in-column-about-protest-at-bard-college/

I'm gonna go with "Ungar-Sargon wasn't protested for being a Jew, her panel was protested because Ruth Wisse was on it and lots of people are mad at Ruth Wisse," while also conceding that the group protesting Ungar-Sargon's panel probably makes common cause with anti-Semites about the perfidy of Israel. Also feel like Ungar-Sargon's treatment of McKinney-Baldon was pretty unforgivable.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/train-abuse-jewish-family-antisemitism-london-tube-racist-a9214316.html

“As soon as I stopped filming I switched seats with the boy. The abuser got off at Waterloo, shouting that King James was in fact black.”

Crazy talk, everybody knows King James was a wee gay guy fae Edinburgh.

(The guy's been arrested btw).

apparently 93% of UK Jews are pretending Corbyn is antisemitic bc they're secret Tories
https://www.timesofisrael.com/polls-despite-mixed-opinions-on-brexit-93-of-uk-jews-wont-vote-for-labour/

better vote for more the most overtly racist PM and cabinet the UK has seen in decades then.

a guy whose response to orban being elected was 'good on you, huzzah'

they should admit that they aren't afraid of antisemitism they just like starving grannies

fwiw that poll was conducted by something called Survation on behalf of the Jewish Chronicle, which seems to be right-leaning. At the same time, you can only push a poll so much. I do kind of wonder why the dynamic seems to be so different with UK Jews vs US Jews, most of whom are blue-no-matter-who.

probably bc omar is just a junior congresswoman and not the leader of the party set up to be executive of the state if dems come back to power

fwiw #Jews4Labour has been trending today in response to the latest discreditation manoeuvre

lol yes merely a discreditation manoeuvre nothing to see here folks

probably bc omar is just a junior congresswoman and not the leader of the party set up to be executive of the state if dems come back to power

― Mordy, Tuesday, November 26, 2019 11:14 AM (three minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Even if Omar were speaker of the house, I don't think you'd see even a majority of US Jews refusing to vote dem, let alone 90+%. Maybe it's also the disjointed nature of our national/state/local politics and the fact that our parties don't really function like UK parties.

It is a discreditation manoeuvre. No new AS cases have been reported. It's the chief rabbi, at a spectacularly well-timed moment - a friend and known BoJo supporter - speaking out about AS within Labour. It's not based on anything new afaic.

xp

Useful as a pro et contra primer:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_Corbyn#Allegations_of_antisemitism

Apologies if you already know all this, Mordy.

yes i've been following it closely for a few years now. i find uklxors take on it (basically to run interference for corbyn bc accepting the charges as possibly legitimate would be politically disastrous for their ideological commitments) to be pretty depressing tbph but i know enough to expect it now.

My hot take is that Labour needs a leader who doesn't invite such allegations in the first place.

If I was convinced Corbyn was an anti-Semite I would not be voting Labour. And Labour itself are mildly left.

to me corbyn is an antisemite as trump is a bigot - there's plenty of evidence but not enough that a committed supporter can't demonstrate that there's no smoking gun.

Any Labour left leader will have some form of mud thrown at him or her. It might not take the form of anti-Semitism but it would be something else. But we've been through that.

Morey we utterly disagree but that's ok you do you.

i find uklxors take on it (basically to run interference for corbyn bc accepting the charges as possibly legitimate would be politically disastrous for their ideological commitments) to be pretty depressing tbph but i know enough to expect it now.

What would you have liked to see though? UKilxors cheering that a rabbi thinks Corbyn is an anti-semite and shouldn't be PM? Not just any rabbi, a self declared Tory and BoJo fan?

to me corbyn is an antisemite as trump is a bigot - there's plenty of evidence but not enough that a committed supporter can't demonstrate that there's no smoking gun.

― Mordy, Tuesday, November 26, 2019 5:29 PM (one minute ago) bookmarkflaglink

Yeah if this is your take, you do you.

tbc you disagree with 93% of the UK Jewish community. but like i said probably they just love austerity and are pretending they care about antisemitism. xp

lbi idk anything about this rabbi if you look at the link that prompted this bump it is not about any rabbi?

Thought you said you followed it closely. I mean this: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/25/labour-has-let-poison-of-antisemitism-take-root-says-chief-rabbi
(but I see now your link was from before that)

;lol you can't have it both ways -- "this rabbi saying something is entirely inconsequential" and "i thought you were following this closely" ;)

As a non-white person most parties including Labour are capitalist and racist. But I am able to separate these things because, for example, I hate austerity and have watched how the discourse has operated to weaponise anti-Semitism as an issue.

I'm saying it's a rather obvious attack on Labour at a pivotal time in the GE campaign, drummed up by the media, by a staunch BJ friend and fan. It's the latter that really does no-one any favours here imo.

He’s the chief rabbi maybe he has a sincere interest here/ maybe defaming his concern as concocted for political gain is nagl??? But what do I know

My hot take is that Labour needs a leader who doesn't invite such allegations in the first place.

― pomenitul, Tuesday, November 26, 2019 4:26 PM (five seconds ago) bookmarkflaglink

Man's not hot on that count.

There's racism in every party. And of course, any perceived racism is going to be used as ammo by the other side.
There is a depressing argument that denies the existence of AS in Labour, saying that it is all a smear campaign, a position which is problematic in itself and absolves any and all blame while making out that it's all made-up.
I think the truth is somewhere very much in between, but there's no conspiracy. Rightwingers are gonna rightwing. Corbyn probably isn't antisemitic, but he has said and done some daft stuff which he's been slow to counteract.
So this whole AS thing is going to dog him for the rest of his political career. There's always going to be that question mark, no matter what he says.

What has he said that makes you think he’s antisemitic? (Rather than him being slow on discipline, not taking antisemitism seriously enough, etc.)

He’s the chief rabbi maybe he has a sincere interest here/ maybe defaming his concern as concocted for political gain is nagl??? But what do I know

― Mordy, Tuesday, 26 November 2019 bookmarkflaglink

To me it doesn't appear that you know much given how you pop up now and then on this issue but have stayed silent on poverty, climate change and the like so you aren't able to weigh how certain things are important and what's at stake? I mean austerity doesn't seem to be important to you?

to some Americans anything that isn't reduced state austerity/let ppl eat cake and die on the streets is just bloody rampant socialism!

actually climate change is the number one issue that i vote on and something i spend a lot of time thinking and writing about but i'm not surprised that a) your impression of me is entirely based on an issue that you personally may struggle to reconcile with your other politics bc that's what stands out and b) that you would try and use your one dimensional perception of me to dismiss my concern in this particular area. it's disingenuous and shitty but i don't expect more of you based on our previous engagements on ilx.

xp there are many things such as his introductions of hamas/hezbollah, his mural comments, the discipline/interference issues, his "english irony" comment etc but like i said above any motivated enough apologist can demonstrate that there's no smoking gun he's never been caught calling someone a dirty kike or whatever, which is fine i'm used to this standard of defense for a favorite politician among ppl of all political stripes.

In 2015, 86 per cent of UK Jewish voters chose not to vote for Labour when it had a Jewish leader. In 2014, that leader chose to recognise the Palestinian claim to statehood and made a two-state solution part of Labour policy, which has not changed under Corbyn. There were many, many antisemitic dog whistles put forward by the same mainstream British media against Ed Miliband (rootless cosmopolitan, disloyal North London intellectual, etc) that are now so keen to give a platform to Jewish voices against Corbyn, who include the Daily Mail (cheered on Mosley’s fascists in the ‘30s) and Rupert Murdoch’s Times.

Also, leave my Congresswoman the fuck alone, please.