From where I'm standing both LBI's Irish and gyac's Dutch sound impeccable. ;)
― pomenitul, Tuesday, 10 September 2019 19:36 (four years ago) link
Currently sitting in front of the TV watching Ronan Curtis and Callum O’Dowda launch shots in the very approximate direction of a Bulgarian goalkeeper so I struggle to believe my commitment to Irish culture is being questioned atm.
― ShariVari, Tuesday, 10 September 2019 19:42 (four years ago) link
you can’t pronounce madra and siopa correctly, stop embarrassing yourself please
― gyac, Tuesday, 10 September 2019 19:43 (four years ago) link
The language of *BEEP* is universal :) I've no idea what you said there Gyac, if it wasn't a string of words instead of a sentence (caught a few mentioned here!).
What is (what sounds like) 'na-kórgia'?
xp lol SV
― Le Bateau Ivre, Tuesday, 10 September 2019 19:44 (four years ago) link
na cáirde = the friends
― gyac, Tuesday, 10 September 2019 19:44 (four years ago) link
lol sv im watchin england
― theRZA the JZA and the NDB (darraghmac), Tuesday, 10 September 2019 19:56 (four years ago) link
i'm watching a documentary about the Hittites, ftw
― a wagon to the curious (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 10 September 2019 19:57 (four years ago) link
xp i mean lolololololz obv
― theRZA the JZA and the NDB (darraghmac), Tuesday, 10 September 2019 19:58 (four years ago) link
thank you brave people with your sound clips!
I don't have any specific requests, still conceptually/anatomically troubled by https://irishpalatals.sites.ucsc.edu/getting-started/introduction/ though
― a passing spacecadet, Tuesday, 10 September 2019 21:14 (four years ago) link
i think it would be lovely to understand any of that but otoh theres a lot to be said for listening to a bit of it too, imitation is often smarter than learning or, as we'd say ourselves nura mbíonn aon ann agat ach pucín gabhair cur i lar an bpairce leis
which is a rough effort at something a roscommon man of my close acquaintance says at random times, roughly phonetically equates to nurameen ayn on oggot ak pukeen gower curry lower an parka lesh
i have no fuckin idea what it means, something about a mediocre goat i think
ok thats 101
― theRZA the JZA and the NDB (darraghmac), Tuesday, 10 September 2019 21:25 (four years ago) link
I had a teacher who said “ann” to rhyme with crown, but she was from Cork. But yeah unless you mislearn Irish for your whole childhood idk where you would start as an adult.
― gyac, Tuesday, 10 September 2019 21:28 (four years ago) link
just listening i think.
the most i ever picked up was genuinely from the likes of gift grub, something i found funny that more dropped snippets in that were tantalisingly close to comprehensible and obviously worth chasing for meaning.
after that its again snippets like the saying above or what an aul fella might drop into conversation down home where you like the roll of it or whatever.
id have to learn the grammar basics again, the vocab would come but id never fear the pronunciation at all tbh, its almost entirely interpretive as far as i can tell from the many moves growing up
― theRZA the JZA and the NDB (darraghmac), Tuesday, 10 September 2019 21:32 (four years ago) link
see I’m the opposite, but that’s not really surprising I guess cos you probably grew up with more exposure to the language in daily life than me? I’d be fine with verbs and grammar but if you asked me to read something out unprepared or formulate a sentence or argument in my head, I’d get totally tongue tied. It’s really strange because I sort of did mini immersion while I was studying for the oral and I would dream in Irish, my thoughts would be in it too, and it sounded like music in my thoughts and from my mouth and yet, and yet, and yet. I never had this trouble with french ffs.
― gyac, Tuesday, 10 September 2019 21:36 (four years ago) link
listening is good in theory but everyone speaks too fast! I guess there's probably something simple and slowable on the internet
(flashbacks to weddings/funerals where I'm clutching the order of service and looking for vaguely similar words in a line of a call&response prayer half a page above the one everyone else is actually reading out, hoping any nearby old ladies aren't outraged that I'm not even opening my mouth)
dmac I have no idea what that means and still less after asking Google Translate but I am all for sayings involving goats
― a passing spacecadet, Tuesday, 10 September 2019 21:40 (four years ago) link
this is me ever since they changed mass & idk what the fuck is happening anymore
― gyac, Tuesday, 10 September 2019 21:52 (four years ago) link
never really immersed tbh, theres a few spots on the island but never any of mine.
aps that aspirationally translates to "if all you have is a scrawny goat, put it in the middle of the market"
he never told me what it meant but it danced when he said it which i feel is the main thing
― theRZA the JZA and the NDB (darraghmac), Tuesday, 10 September 2019 21:55 (four years ago) link
am going to be on islay in a couple weeks, might get to hear some goidelic vocables
― Seany's too Dyche to mention (jim in vancouver), Tuesday, 10 September 2019 23:03 (four years ago) link
can someone who knows a bit more about it fill me in on one aspect of the emma de souza case? No article I've read mentions the reasons why the home office is pursuing this in court. A few have mentioned "brexit" but I'm not really following the logic. It seems to have something about asserting domestic law over allowing say the ECJ to have jurisdiction over half the population and therefore over NI? Is this correct?
― plax (ico), Wednesday, 11 September 2019 21:37 (four years ago) link
emma de souza case bit confusing to me but the reason the home office is pursuing it in court is because ... they don't like immigration and people appealing immigration decisions in court?
― Seany's too Dyche to mention (jim in vancouver), Wednesday, 11 September 2019 21:49 (four years ago) link
i think its a basic split motivation between the ECJ jurisdiction argument and a simple rejection of the "self identification" of nationality
presumably the underlying driver boils down to "call yourself what you like but NI is british"
― theRZA the JZA and the NDB (darraghmac), Wednesday, 11 September 2019 22:01 (four years ago) link
Emma de Souza is an Irish citizen from NI who has never held British citizenship. On this basis, her status as an EU citizen means she can have her (non-EU) husband live with her in NI. However the home office considers her a British citizen, even though this contravenes the provisions in the GFA for all people from NI to be Irish, British, or both. At least that’s how I understand it.https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/derry-woman-is-british-until-she-renounces-citizenship-tribunal-told-1.4013861
― gyac, Wednesday, 11 September 2019 22:05 (four years ago) link
the brits consider someone born in the NI automatically british unless they renounce their citizenship it seems
― Seany's too Dyche to mention (jim in vancouver), Wednesday, 11 September 2019 22:06 (four years ago) link
Even if they do not consider themselves British or even to have held said citizenship.
― gyac, Wednesday, 11 September 2019 22:08 (four years ago) link
wonder if after brexit an irish citizen from NI would even be able to sponsor a spouse to live in NI.
― Seany's too Dyche to mention (jim in vancouver), Wednesday, 11 September 2019 22:15 (four years ago) link
i can basically never move back to the uk on the basis of being in a ltr - soon to be a marriage - with a non-eu citizen and being broke as fuck so I'm definitely sympathetic to this case, hope it works out for them
― Seany's too Dyche to mention (jim in vancouver), Wednesday, 11 September 2019 22:17 (four years ago) link
if this upcoming second marriage of mine fails like the last one I'm high-tailing it home before i can fall in love with another canadian
― Seany's too Dyche to mention (jim in vancouver), Wednesday, 11 September 2019 22:18 (four years ago) link
Seems wise
― president of deluded fruitcakes anonymous (silby), Thursday, 12 September 2019 00:25 (four years ago) link
okay thanks for (sorta) clarification. You're kindof saying what I understood the case to be, its just weird to me that the Home Office have such latitude to take an action so aggressively undermining of the GFA. At least when number 10 does it there's an impetus that kindof makes sense. This seems way off the leash, but then comments by the migration minister (!) sortof show that this is a p uncontroversial within central government. Anyway, well done this lady.
― plax (ico), Thursday, 12 September 2019 05:31 (four years ago) link
She has won three cases against the home office so far iirc. I assume the home office does act within the remit of no 10’s knowledge though? Notable that the challenges have been going on for four years and that Theresa May would have been the Home Secretary signing off on the initial one.It’s a fucking awful case
The legal wrangle is now entering it’s fourth year. For the first two years, we lost our Freedom of Movement. The UK Home Office retained Jake’s passport with no legislative authority or policy to do-so. With these restrictions, Jake was unable to leave the country and had to turn down opportunities for work. The highest price, however, was losing the last two years of his grandmother’s life. Every request to see Jake’s grandmother in her progressively deteriorating condition was denied. When she passed away at home in Los Angeles, Jake’s request to attend the funeral was denied. It was only after increased media pressure that the Home Office eventually relented- couriering Jake’s passport back to us and allowing him a belated farewell to his late grandmother; a bitter-sweet farewell mired by remorse for not having been afforded an opportunity to say goodbye.
― gyac, Thursday, 12 September 2019 06:28 (four years ago) link
And this too:
Most troubling though is that our experience is not unique, but rather a window into a much deeper and wider issue occurring across our society. The reality being felt by myself and many in our community is that there is a price on Irish identity. A personal price that leaves many questioning what our identity is truly worth. A process referred to as Renunciation of British Citizenship is offered by the UK Home Office as a solution, but what does it really entail?Firstly, the form is a legal document that begins with a declaration; “I am a British citizen”It also requires substantial evidence to prove you have British citizenship. Birth in Northern Ireland constitutes automatic British citizenship for those seeking to realize their EU rights. For those renouncing, it is considered insufficient evidence of British citizenship. Considering that many individuals choosing this route do not consider themselves British in the first place, it can be an emotionally arduous process.In addition, the process also costs £372!! No small fee for renouncing a citizenship which under the GFA should be entirely optional. There should be no levy on an Irish person to be recognised as Irish to live on our island! Anyone taking this route will also lose Freedom of Movement for up to 6 months while the Home Office processes your application.Then there’s the uncertainty; nobody knows what the ramifications of renouncing are. In a recent case, the Home Office went so far as to question the residency rights of a citizen who had renounced their British citizenship. There is a very real possibility that going forward, anyone else choosing to renounce may be exposed to further impedance of their right to remain in their home. There’s also concern about the rights of the wider family as a whole, and the effect renouncing may have on them.
Firstly, the form is a legal document that begins with a declaration; “I am a British citizen”
It also requires substantial evidence to prove you have British citizenship. Birth in Northern Ireland constitutes automatic British citizenship for those seeking to realize their EU rights. For those renouncing, it is considered insufficient evidence of British citizenship. Considering that many individuals choosing this route do not consider themselves British in the first place, it can be an emotionally arduous process.
In addition, the process also costs £372!! No small fee for renouncing a citizenship which under the GFA should be entirely optional. There should be no levy on an Irish person to be recognised as Irish to live on our island! Anyone taking this route will also lose Freedom of Movement for up to 6 months while the Home Office processes your application.
Then there’s the uncertainty; nobody knows what the ramifications of renouncing are. In a recent case, the Home Office went so far as to question the residency rights of a citizen who had renounced their British citizenship. There is a very real possibility that going forward, anyone else choosing to renounce may be exposed to further impedance of their right to remain in their home. There’s also concern about the rights of the wider family as a whole, and the effect renouncing may have on them.
― gyac, Thursday, 12 September 2019 06:31 (four years ago) link
On the train back from Cork and looking forward to this person getting on to find their reserved seat. pic.twitter.com/hsX4LxPcp5— Conor Wilson (@ConorWilson) September 16, 2019
― gyac, Tuesday, 17 September 2019 12:52 (four years ago) link
:D
― a wagging to the furious (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 17 September 2019 12:53 (four years ago) link
I think I know him.
― Let them eat Pfifferlinge an Schneckensauce (Tom D.), Tuesday, 17 September 2019 12:54 (four years ago) link
Lmao
― Le Bateau Ivre, Tuesday, 17 September 2019 12:55 (four years ago) link
if his first name's Daniel i definitely know the cunt
― a wagging to the furious (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 17 September 2019 12:57 (four years ago) link
thank you to my friends for booking my train seat pic.twitter.com/ZG3UAxmuYN— 𝕭𝖚𝖈𝕶𝖋𝖆𝖘𝖙 𝕾𝖔𝖈𝖎𝖆𝖑𝖎𝖘𝖙 (@dgahk) September 16, 2019
― gyac, Tuesday, 17 September 2019 13:04 (four years ago) link
hilarious guys
ye might quit tittering at the back there and realise that this is very common in my country, to allocate a secondary family name across the surname to differentiate from other cadet branches of a clan who may be particularly thickly laid out in any given area
in kerry youd get a differentiating string of grandparent names, so that a thos. o'sullivan would be known locally as tommy-paddy-mary, no surname required at all
midwest there's nothing unusual about hearing an entire unit as the rowty-kilbanes or the pheggy-kilbanes
its the latter usage here, and all youre seeing is the truncated identification utilising an honoured tradition, most likely its just john o'donnell, of the useless cunt o'donnells, postman would know him as johnny useless cunt and the barman/undertaker wouldnt know him at all unless you asked for john-mhaire-tim-bán.
the taxman has never heard of him
― provisional ilx (darraghmac), Tuesday, 17 September 2019 13:08 (four years ago) link
Otm. This is why we’ve never needed postcodes!
― gyac, Tuesday, 17 September 2019 13:11 (four years ago) link
sher if we'd a had postcodes the brits woulda found us
― provisional ilx (darraghmac), Tuesday, 17 September 2019 13:12 (four years ago) link
Countries very much in character
The Hail Mary has been voted Ireland's favourite prayer at the National Ploughing Championships https://t.co/QrlsCurn2Z— RTÉ News (@rtenews) September 19, 2019
― gyac, Thursday, 19 September 2019 17:28 (four years ago) link
confiteor topped the sight and sound poll but you can't put the culture into culchie
― provisional ilx (darraghmac), Thursday, 19 September 2019 18:28 (four years ago) link
(xp) Came here to post that!
― Let them eat Pfifferlinge an Schneckensauce (Tom D.), Friday, 20 September 2019 07:10 (four years ago) link
I can understand the logic - it’s the fastest & even more so in Irish
― gyac, Friday, 20 September 2019 08:09 (four years ago) link
"Sure lookit" is hard to define exactly but "that's disappointing and you're not wrong but even though the world isn't fair and we don't always get our way, there are still good options and you have very good friends who like you" isn't too far off.— Darach (@darachos) September 28, 2019
lishen dye think that the brits even understand whats being said here
― all over bar the shouting (im here for the shouting) (darraghmac), Sunday, 29 September 2019 20:19 (four years ago) link
See also “ah sure you know yourself”
― gyac, Sunday, 29 September 2019 20:40 (four years ago) link
this is it
― all over bar the shouting (im here for the shouting) (darraghmac), Sunday, 29 September 2019 20:41 (four years ago) link
just
sure
on its own tbh
― all over bar the shouting (im here for the shouting) (darraghmac), Sunday, 29 September 2019 20:42 (four years ago) link
when u grab yr knees the cup of tea before you leave
sure it is what it is
― gyac, Sunday, 29 September 2019 20:59 (four years ago) link
Ah
― plax (ico), Monday, 30 September 2019 05:32 (four years ago) link