David Fincher's serial killer chat 'em up MINDHUNTER

much of season 2 including the manson + son of sam interviews are from the book. the brian stuff is not real (iow did not happen to one of the real life profilers but does seem to be based on a true story). the department did work with academics including ann burgess a professor from boston college who is mentioned a few times in the book. there's nothing in it about her sexuality tho and all that stuff feels like it was made up for the show.

The stuff with Tench’s kid was invented for the show.
Wendy Carr is based on a real person.

i read it at the shore last week and i was surprised to learn that even the tickling principal is in the book

Xp dammit

thanks
The book will be on my very slow-moving reading list

it's a v quick read

I liked how the show shows a lot of things that don't go anywhere e.g.that cross, the attempt to recruit security for the concert.

also why is Gregg even there, he contributes nothing

watching him squirm during Wendy's convo with the S&M killer was *chef's kiss*

I recently determined that my sexual preference is "Anna Torv's wardrobe on this show," I think.

finished S2.
the Atlanta story was very well portrayed i thought (had never heard of it prior to watching this).
but, have to admit, the BTK interludes become tiresome.

I am really surprised by how many people weren't previously aware of the Atlanta Child Murders!

Or at least I was until I reflected on the fact that of COURSE one of America's most prolific serial killers wouldn't ever achieve the same notoriety/uniquity/cultural cachet as Bundy or BTK or the Night Stalker, because his victims were black children. Nearly all of the serial killers whose names the average person could recall instantly killed white women.

(I'm not blaming mark e or anyone else for *not* knowing about Atlanta, just saying our culture wouldn't invest as much power in the names of these other killers, because their victims had less perceived value. So it's not as surprising as I would think at first glance. Relatively few people know Gary Ridgway's name, either, because he killed prostitutes.)

I was really shocked I hadn't heard of it! Then again I've only heard of Manson, Bundy... zodiac... That's about it.

I never heard of them! I’m not interested in serial killers, I always forget their names. I’m surprised tho I didn’t know about Atlanta seeing as I’ve.. read a lot of Baldwin and just missed that one.

Or at least I was until I reflected on the fact that of COURSE one of America's most prolific serial killers wouldn't ever achieve the same notoriety/uniquity/cultural cachet as Bundy or BTK or the Night Stalker, because his victims were black children. Nearly all of the serial killers whose names the average person could recall instantly killed white women.

well, there is Dahmer.

I remember the Atlanta Murders from the news when I was a kid. Even at the time there was a lot of doubt that Williams was the only killer, but after he was arrested the killings stopped so the story just faded away.

because his victims were black children

the fact i had never heard of this evil worried me a lot, for exactly this reason.
but to be fair at the time i was more interested in what Suggs was up to as opposed to following stories re mass murders in USA.
that said, it's a story that definitely has not had the same profile as the rest of the USA 70s/80s evil f*ckers, and so, for that reason alone, watching S2 was a sad/dark revelation.

btw a year or two ago there was a podcast about the murders-- "The Atlanta Monster" with lots of interviews with Williams

regarding Paul Bateson btw:

Bateson ultimately served 24 years and 3 months of his sentence, becoming eligible for parole in 1997. On the day after his 63rd birthday, in August 2003, he was released from Arthur Kill Correctional Facility on Staten Island. According to online records kept by the state's Department of Corrections and Community Supervision, his parole was successfully completed in November 2008.[7]

That is the last public record of Bateson available as of 2019; where he is living, or even if he is alive, is not known. Miller attempted to contact Bateson for his Esquire article in 2018 at his last known address, in the Long Island village of Freeport, but was unsuccessful as the phone had been disconnected; emails to different addresses either bounced or were not answered.[5] In his podcast interview around the same time, Friedkin said he had heard Bateson was living somewhere in upstate New York.[1]

A record in the Social Security Death Index shows that a Paul F. Bateson, with the same birthdate and a Social Security number issued in Pennsylvania, died on September 15, 2012.[6]

I don't doubt that the lack of a profile for the Atlanta Child Murders is primarily due to the race of the victims, but on a lesser level it can also be hard to figure out why some serial killers become celebrities and others don't. I've never quite understood why some who killed a handful are household names and others who killed dozens are forgotten. Does it always come down to the nature of the victims?

Add to this that WW was charged with only two, maintains his innocence (and is believed by many in the affected community)...well the whole thing is left in a very unsatisfying and messy place (which was, of course, brilliantly exploited by the show).

I think it's often due to the nature of their crimes, how they engaged w/ the media, the personality of the killer, etc - people remember the guy who dressed up like a clown, the cannibal, the guys who wrote letters to the media and courted public attention

i didn't know about ed kemper before this show tho i feel like maybe i should have

it really does boil down to the serial killer fitting into a very specific role for public consumption. It's very easy to see why Ramirez, Manson, Bundy, Dahmer, BTK, Zodiac, Berkowitz, and Gacy had so much attention lavished upon them vs Ridgway or Kemper or the Golden State Killer or the Grim Sleeper. The latter group had some crimes that were horrific but they didn't have the same "hook" the others did in terms of personality or their communications w/media. Golden State Killer was mostly known as the other Night Stalker til recently, maybe the "original" Night Stalker if the media was being a bit more factual.

Atlanta was a case where the murder spree itself and the investigation were more famous than the murderer. The killings were all over the news, and it seemed to take forever to find the killer--and it was just like they caught some guy.

y'all are profiling the public now

the short version of what I was aiming for before: you do profile the public, to determine where they're not looking for the killer (or whether they're looking at all), often due to stereotypes and social/racial/class issues

that's where the depressing theory that there are a number of unrecognized serial killings, because society assumes certain classes of people just tend to get murdered or die tragically

I feel shittier just having typed that

the closest comparison i can make with the Atlanta murders is the epidemic of murdered women in Juarez -- it's similar in that it took the numbers to reach a huge number before people started paying attention.

all the native american girls and women that have gone missing/ are being murdered too.

and the Texas Killing Fields

and the prostitutes killed and buried on Long Island

*every Mindhunter episode*

HOLDEN: did you kill her?

KILLER: nope

HOLDEN: we heard your dick game was weaksauce

KILLER: I killed her and ate her arm for breakfast, yeah

— Michael Tannenbaum (@iamTannenbaum) September 8, 2019

lol otm

blame everything ever, i mean csi in my mind was the *worst* for that type of formulaity (if a suspect actually denied it, it p much meant they would turn out to be innocent every time) but im sure every crime show ever has a similar setup

thin man movies obv best at it

csi was very little investigation -> conclusion and nearly all wrapped up in premise of the crime and the forensic process

it was always just the creepiest suspect

nah it always had grissom ~ look in their eyes and know~ it was fun but dumb as fuck once youd seen a few of them

apart from the one where the busbhad crashed that was legit good

I think they did a good job casting the killers, they are so creepy

in this show, not csi, fuck that

*every Mindhunter episode*

HOLDEN: did you kill her?

KILLER: nope

HOLDEN: we heard your dick game was weaksauce

KILLER: I killed her and ate her arm for breakfast, yeah

This scenario doesn't play out at all in the second season except for maaaaybe the Berkowitz scene.

I've only seen two episodes of S2 so far, but that scenario is definitely a feature of the Berkowitz scene

I'm looking forward to seeing more of this, limiting myself to one episode a week because I'm watching it with a friend

Finally finished S@, was great. The run of scenes at the end of the last episode -- Carr dumping the magazine, Tench in the empty house, Holden watching everything getting swept away, the BDK guy doing his thing and then the intensely creepy Peter Gabriel song over the credits: fucking hell.

thin man movies obv best at it

― theRZA the JZA and the NDB (darraghmac), Monday, September 9, 2019 7:33 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

Now I'm trying to imagine this series with Nick and Nora Charles instead of Holden and Bill.

Martinis with Manson?

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/10/are-serial-killers-more-common-than-we-think/596647/

But here’s a curious fact. As the number of serial killings has supposedly fallen, so too has the rate of murder cases solved—or “cleared,” in detective lingo. In 1965, the U.S. homicide clearance rate was 91 percent. By 2017, it had dropped to 61.6 percent, one of the lowest rates in the Western world. In other words, about 40 percent of the time, murderers get away with murder.

Some experts believe that serial killers are responsible for a significant number of these unsolved murders. Thomas Hargrove, the founder of the Murder Accountability Project, a nonprofit that compiles data on homicide, has examined how many unsolved murders are linked by DNA evidence. He believes that at least 2 percent of murders are committed by serial offenders—translating to about 2,100 unidentified serial killers. Michael Arntfield, a retired police detective and the author of 12 books on serial murder, agrees that the FBI’s projections are off (he blames patchy data, among other things) but thinks the number of active serial killers is more like 3,000 or 4,000.

you could fit all the serial killers in the US into a football stadium, so are they really that big of a threat?

depends on what you do with them after i guess

Are those stats taking into account the number/percentage of false convictions? It's easy to clear a murder if you arrest and convict someone who didn't do it. I've seen estimates that anywhere from 5-12% of murder convictions are wrongful, which is a lot!

lol darraghmac

But everyone in that stadium will kill multiple times, so that's, what, 6 stadiums of victims?

turn it into the world’s biggest royal rumble & make them all kill each other

oh wah he’s not your “type” you cant kill “just anyone” cry me a river I SAID TO THE DEATH

I've been checking my bootleg place weekly, and they still don't have the second season in. I'm rewatching the first season for now. I think episode 8--a return interview with Brudos, the foot-tickling principal, and hiring a new transcriber--is one of the best episodes I can think of in any show ever. The writing--every line from start to finish--is masterful.

I knew that the song at the end of the seres was "Intruder" by PG but I'd nevr paid attention to its lyrics before, yike.

Excellent use also of Marianne Faithfull's "Guilt" during the end credits of a recent episode. Made me re-visit Broken English.

Gave up on a bootleg, signed up for Netflix (have to watch on my computer, but I'm adapting). Anyway, very solid for the first three episodes. Don't want to read the thread till I finish. Albert Jones reminds me of Tim Meadows--I keep waiting for jokes.