Killing Bolsanaro wouldn't solve anything. Deforestation has been the case way before him, it was just at lower levels.
― xyzzzz__, Friday, 23 August 2019 13:56 (four years ago) link
Killing Bolsanaro wouldn't solve anything.
Oh, it would solve a few things, but not the deforestation of the Amazon Basin.
― A is for (Aimless), Friday, 23 August 2019 15:34 (four years ago) link
― lowkey goatsed on the styx (bizarro gazzara), Friday, 23 August 2019 15:39 (four years ago) link
macron and merkel want G7 talks on the rainforest fires.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/aug/23/amazon-rainforest-fires-macron-calls-for-international-crisis-to-lead-g7-discussions
bolsonaro is accusing them of colonialist interventionism.
gee, i wonder whose side trump is going to take
― Karl Malone, Friday, 23 August 2019 16:16 (four years ago) link
Guardian from 2017: The Amazon effect: how deforestation is starving São Paulo of water
The big immediate losers from further deforestation will be Brazilians. On r/collapse, a Brazilian called for an embargo. I guess I can add it to my long BDS list.
― hedonic treadmill class action (Sanpaku), Friday, 23 August 2019 23:41 (four years ago) link
Maybe there's a competition right now to be the world's most deliciously murderable man.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Saturday, 24 August 2019 11:05 (four years ago) link
Omg I just asked a white man at a bar what he thought of jack antonoff and he said “Actually I’m voting for Bernie”— Vrinda Jagota (@vrindajagota) August 24, 2019
(commune mag editor)
― j., Saturday, 24 August 2019 19:28 (four years ago) link
lol er sorry, that should have been
I read Bernie's GND platform. Some thoughts:— Jasper Bernes (@outsidadgitator) August 24, 2019
― j., Saturday, 24 August 2019 19:29 (four years ago) link
Any process of proletarian self-organization will involve the formation of new class fractions organized around fundamental points of shared interest and solidarity. It will also involve divisions and rifts within the proletariat...
When does jasper project this proletarian self-organization will happen? Because climate change isn't going to bide its time so the proletariat can figure out how to get organized and make a more class-struggle-based set of demands.
― A is for (Aimless), Saturday, 24 August 2019 19:47 (four years ago) link
I do not think proletarians should be accepting the terms under which they are convoked and organized by the state.— Jasper Bernes (@outsidadgitator) August 24, 2019
If there's one thing I expect from a US politician running for president, it's to not offer dictates on change as defined and implemented by the state.
― Simon H., Saturday, 24 August 2019 19:58 (four years ago) link
meanwhile...
The Democratic Party's centrist caucus -- which has openly criticized the Green New Deal for being unrealistic and unaffordable --is now tweeting out proposals "for an iceberg-making submarine that could produce 82-foot-wide, 16-foot-thick chunks of ice" to combat climate change. pic.twitter.com/BEbKOiZQU3— Waleed Shahid (@_waleedshahid) August 24, 2019
― Simon H., Saturday, 24 August 2019 20:35 (four years ago) link
lol i just posted that on the 2020 dem primary threadtruly extraordinary stuff
― lowkey goatsed on the styx (bizarro gazzara), Saturday, 24 August 2019 20:48 (four years ago) link
Wtf
― American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Saturday, 24 August 2019 21:29 (four years ago) link
that is satire right?
― chihuahuau, Saturday, 24 August 2019 21:45 (four years ago) link
the idea may be bad, but that looks like a really cool board game. they need to rethink the vision
― Karl Malone, Saturday, 24 August 2019 21:55 (four years ago) link
Can we have just a moment to applaud Danish MP Ida Auken?
Mr President - Greenland is not for sale. But Denmark has a much better deal for you! Watch this. #dkgreen #dkpol pic.twitter.com/mlRwAVzVFg— Ida Auken (@IdaAuken) August 20, 2019
"Grab... your pen" had me laughing out loud.
― hedonic treadmill class action (Sanpaku), Saturday, 24 August 2019 22:31 (four years ago) link
The climate debate thing seems like a classic case of activism-ism — making up a controversy for the sake of having something to organize around.— Matthew Yglesias (@mattyglesias) August 24, 2019
People keep telling me this guy is supposed to be smart?
― Simon H., Sunday, 25 August 2019 08:10 (four years ago) link
he is such a clueless dipshit
― lowkey goatsed on the styx (bizarro gazzara), Sunday, 25 August 2019 08:55 (four years ago) link
I wouldn’t say he’s dumb but he’s definitely someone who views politics through the myopic filter of duopolistic competition for government institutions, so it would never occur to him that it might be a good idea to pressure the people closer to your side more than the people on the other side
― Carisis LaVerted (m bison), Sunday, 25 August 2019 12:55 (four years ago) link
you can put side in scare quotes
― Carisis LaVerted (m bison), Sunday, 25 August 2019 12:56 (four years ago) link
i'm trying to guess at what sense he argues that this controversy is "made up."
― Hunt3r, Sunday, 25 August 2019 15:12 (four years ago) link
Deforestation has been the case way before him, it was just at lower levels.
thanks to Trump's trade wars, China is now leaning more heavily on Brazil for both beef and soy.
― Vape Store (crüt), Sunday, 25 August 2019 15:20 (four years ago) link
Presumably Yglesias/Perez/DNC think the debate will be over whether CC is real.
The reality is its going to take a huge amount of debate, effort and public buy-in to determine which policies should be used to respond. Hiding that debate in DC conference rooms won't help with the buy-in.
― hedonic treadmill class action (Sanpaku), Sunday, 25 August 2019 15:22 (four years ago) link
my guess is that the the DNC fears that a debate on climate change would get too "real", and talk too much about solutions and what those solutions might entail. climate change works as a campaign issue for democrats when things are fuzzy and vague. people want to hear about "the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal." not everyone likes to hear about how serious the problem is and how it will almost certainly get worse and worse for the rest of our lives, even as try harder and harder to do something about it.
a climate debate would be an hour + of bernie talking about a $16 trillion plan and how it requires a revolution - "a political revolution" - to accomplish, warren talking about her Green Apollo Plan, Green Marshall Plan, and Green Industrial Mobilization Plan. there would be questions about whether or not they support the Green New Deal, which, now that the AOC plan has been joined by sanders' plan of the same name, is about as messy a thing to define as "medicare for all". none of this is what the DNC wants.
this is speculation within speculation, but i think the more centrist leaning democrats would look like fools during this debate (again, not what the DNC wants). their environmental plans sound like bold proposals from 15 years ago. they're just not enough, too little, too late. on stage, they'd have to choose between acknowledging the vast scale of the problem (and the solutions) vs talking vaguely about how big of a problem it is but holding back from supporting the kinds of enormous bold policies that would actually help to counteract it.
tl;dr the DNC didn't like how the democratic field was pulled toward supporting medicare for all. now, they're trying to avoid letting the field get pulled toward vocally supporting gigantic environmental spending plans.
― Karl Malone, Sunday, 25 August 2019 15:45 (four years ago) link
it’s like they want human civilisation to end
OK, I'm going to repeat myself again: Corporate media is not your friend. Repeat that as many times as you have to.The Earth's on fire, every year's hotter, we're seeing unprecedented storms and WaPo is comparing Bernie's bold climate plan to a border wall. This is madness. pic.twitter.com/zksxmQFXtN— beth, an alien (@bourgeoisalien) August 24, 2019
― lowkey goatsed on the styx (bizarro gazzara), Sunday, 25 August 2019 16:12 (four years ago) link
it's also child's play compared to... defeating the nazis? building the Internet? implementing a usable dollar coin? HAAAAATE CLICKS GONNA CLIIIIIICK
― Li'l Brexit (Tracer Hand), Sunday, 25 August 2019 17:14 (four years ago) link
i haven't seen a dollar coin in 2 years
― Vape Store (crüt), Sunday, 25 August 2019 18:33 (four years ago) link
i had a couple and was shocked that they were worked in the vending machine
― Carisis LaVerted (m bison), Sunday, 25 August 2019 18:34 (four years ago) link
my point. it's difficult
― Li'l Brexit (Tracer Hand), Sunday, 25 August 2019 20:46 (four years ago) link
BREAKING: G-7 countries have agreed to an immediate $20 million fund to help Amazon countries fight wildfires. https://t.co/iXyXg99W68— The Associated Press (@AP) August 26, 2019
wow....20 million...
― Simon H., Monday, 26 August 2019 14:25 (four years ago) link
i wonder what the total cost of holding the G7 summit was this year
― Karl Malone, Monday, 26 August 2019 14:49 (four years ago) link
Meanwhile Netflix just spent $100 million on Friends
― Elvis Telecom, Monday, 26 August 2019 18:54 (four years ago) link
bc unlike the amazon rainforest, they’ll be there for you
― wario in the streets, waluigi in the sheets (m bison), Monday, 26 August 2019 19:17 (four years ago) link
Xps - about $40m (and this one was done on the cheap apparently).
https://www.business-standard.com/article/news-ani/g7-summit-in-biarritz-to-cost-france-around-36-4-million-euros-119082101592_1.html
― Ned Trifle X, Monday, 26 August 2019 22:46 (four years ago) link
that's what i figured. thanks for looking it up! welp
― Karl Malone, Monday, 26 August 2019 23:23 (four years ago) link
We don't need no water let the motherfucker burn...
Amazon rainforest fires: Brazil to reject $20m pledged by G7
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/aug/27/amazon-fires-brazil-to-reject-20m-pledged-by-g7?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard
― Ned Trifle X, Tuesday, 27 August 2019 08:12 (four years ago) link
“Macron cannot even avoid a foreseeable fire in a church that is a world heritage site,” Lorenzoni said in a reference to the blaze that devastated the Notre Dame cathedral in April. “What does he intend to teach our country?
― lowkey goatsed on the styx (bizarro gazzara), Tuesday, 27 August 2019 08:42 (four years ago) link
Macron is really pathetic.
― xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 27 August 2019 08:49 (four years ago) link
People keep saying "we're about to reach a tipping point" but every time they do, it's a different tipping point. Twenty years ago it was "we need to prevent this impending climate catastrophe". Five years ago it was "we need to mitigate this impending climate catastrophe". Last year it was "we need to try at least see if we can make it so that the human race can survive for another hundred years". Today it's "Well if we work really hard perhaps we can forestall the inevitable collapse of human civilization for a couple decades". It's the Maxwell Smart approach to human extinction.
― Abigail, Wife of Preserved Fish (rushomancy), Tuesday, 27 August 2019 22:34 (four years ago) link
Human civilization will survive tho might be scaled back significantly
― Vape Store (crüt), Wednesday, 28 August 2019 02:05 (four years ago) link
The more fundamental and adaptive parts of civilization will survive. Like cooperation toward common goals. And some elements of technology. Agriculture in some form, surely. Weaponry, too. Writing is a cinch to survive. Same for arithmetic and geometry. Exactly where the level will recede to is any one's guess, but some hard-won concepts are too rugged to disappear.
― A is for (Aimless), Wednesday, 28 August 2019 03:43 (four years ago) link
Human civilization will survive
― Vape Store (crüt)
OK, persuade me of this. For humanity to survive, we need to live on an earth-like planet, right? Isn't there some point where the changes become so catastrophic that earth, for some period of time, ceases to be an "earth-like planet" in terms of climate? Is this level of change impossible for humans to cause, and if it's not, what can possibly stop us, as a species, from causing that level of change?
― Abigail, Wife of Preserved Fish (rushomancy), Wednesday, 28 August 2019 03:48 (four years ago) link
i will stop you all
― Karl Malone, Wednesday, 28 August 2019 03:53 (four years ago) link
those who can afford to be fine will be fine, and in the meantime ought to prefer that people think of what's happening in terms of an indiscriminate doom coming for a whole guilty species
― difficult listening hour, Wednesday, 28 August 2019 04:14 (four years ago) link
earth, for some period of time, ceases to be an "earth-like planet" in terms of climate?
During the 350 million years or so that the Earth has had relatively complex terrestrial vertebrates, Earth has experienced some pretty wide extremes of climate and I can't think of one reason why these should not be called "earth-like", since they spontaneously occurred on earth. And complex vertebrate life persisted through it all.
In the past 50,000 years humans have adapted to every climate from the equatorial tropics to Tierra del Fuego and the shores of the Arctic Ocean, so we seem to be one of the most adaptable large life forms around and no type of climate has stopped us yet.
That doesn't mean there couldn't be a human die-off of massive proportions and the complete disintegration of 'high' civilization to the point where human existence in the year 2500 has retreated to subsistence living in scattered villages and life expectancy has halved or worse.
But everyone gets to have their own ideas of the future and if your version includes human extinction, no one can prove you're wrong.
― A is for (Aimless), Wednesday, 28 August 2019 04:21 (four years ago) link
that’s true we’re all gonna die before we find out what really happens
― Vape Store (crüt), Wednesday, 28 August 2019 07:10 (four years ago) link
Still, it was all worth it, hedge funds will live forever
― michael schenker group is no laughing matter (Matt #2), Wednesday, 28 August 2019 08:36 (four years ago) link
― difficult listening hour
do you see it in terms of individual guilt? obviously some people are more guilty than others but imo we as a species do suffer a collective guilt. i'm not a good or moral person and i have more than my share of responsibility for what's happening, but i also have a hard time seeing anybody around me as a good or moral person. it doesn't matter what we believe, it doesn't matter what we've done, none of it has been enough. we've all failed, and those of us with more power have, in general, failed harder.
can i afford to be "fine"? right now, yeah, sure, i'm "fine", i get to see the people around me committing genocide in the course of the holy pursuit of "i got mine". at the same time i don't expect the people they're/we're killing to go quietly, i don't expect a number in a bank account to protect me. if people start coming for the ones most responsible, i support that; i don't think anybody deserves to be safe or that, in the long run, safety is something they/we can really buy.
aimless you do make a pretty good argument thank you that helps. i guess it's maybe a matter of my wondering if our will to be live can be broken as a species the way my will to live has been broken as an individual, if the self-destructive tendencies i've seen in myself do exist on a phylogenic level or if that's just me projecting, ontogeny i well know doesn't recapitulate phylogeny
― Abigail, Wife of Preserved Fish (rushomancy), Wednesday, 28 August 2019 09:57 (four years ago) link
History is a graveyard of once prosperous civilizations. Most were felled by smaller stressors than 3-4 °C.
I'm not in the human extinction camp: we're more adaptable than rats or cockroaches. There's no question that knowledge can be preserved if there's a will. What's more in question is whether the complex chains of production embodied in my computer, my phone, etc can be maintained should global human carrying capacity fall markedly (wouldn't be surprised if the bottleneck was around 2 billion), most occupied with subsistence, and the raw materials are exhausted or only accessible in uninhabitable parts of the globe.
― hedonic treadmill class action (Sanpaku), Wednesday, 28 August 2019 17:26 (four years ago) link
I don't think we are more adaptable than rats (50-odd million years and counting) or cockroaches (300-odd million years), actually. Our sheer mass and energy requirements as individuals are against us there.
― And according to some websites, there were “sexcapades.” (James Morrison), Thursday, 29 August 2019 00:42 (four years ago) link