PMs change and lol we're all gonna die (but brexit will never end)

And? This doesn't disprove my point, which is that Corbyn is doing precious little to defend the rights of EU citizens in the UK. Why do so many of you feel the need to bat for this? Is wholesale alignment with every single one of his stances a prerequisite to posting itt? Is it really that hard to grasp why I would take issue with Corbyn's timorousness in this regard?

my brexit-voting father-in-law was blustering about his support for the pension plan yesterday on the grounds that it wouldn’t affect him since he’s already retired, so let’s not count out the ‘fuck you, got mine’ vote

The Labour leader said the party would campaign to remain against a no-deal Brexit. But when asked if the party would stay agnostic if the public were given a choice between a deal negotiated by Labour and remaining in the EU, Corbyn did not say which side the party would support.

Possibly there is more to lose than gain by responding to that sort of trip-up question before a supposedly forthcoming election. But then I would say that.

you are not the only one with skin in the game

Obviously? I haven't suggested the obverse.

As for the stanning… there's more than a whiff of it itt, yes, although you may not always realize it.

"But you'll forgive me for not getting excited over the exact extent to which that appears to be the case right now."

'right now' is the wrong way of looking at it. See the bigger picture.

Ok, but that requires a leap of faith that we generally don't afford other politicians. It comes more or less easily to one.

this thread does stan for corbyn. come on.

There is no leap of faith here. You are looking at a statement given today as if it's the policy they'll adopt instead of seeing as a reply to a a question in a game being played. I know it's no good if you want assurances.

McDonnell stans maybe, not Corbyn. I am certainly not a Corbyn stan!

How does this thread stan for Corbyn if you post in it Jim?

my brexit-voting father-in-law was blustering about his support for the pension plan yesterday on the grounds that it wouldn’t affect him since he’s already retired, so let’s not count out the ‘fuck you, got mine’ vote

please give him a stern look from me, thanks

I mean I always say that I assume pensions won't exist by the time I get there (and there's a good chance I won't either) but it's still a bit disheartening to have a member of the government announce such bold steps in that direction

The wider political discourse is marked by attacks on Corbyn, and people defending him. People just get locked into the 'defense' part because that's what's at stake, so there's going to be knee-jerk reactions to criticism.

I get that and it's fair in the wider discursive sphere, but as with many other topics, is the knee-jerking really necessary on ILX where ideological variation from one poster to the next is slim to none when set against the general population?

"The timing of this seems strange, with an election in the offing."

Re: that IDS tweet he is a backbencher. In any case I doubt they will say anything at all about retirement or the care system at a manifesto if the Tories know what's good for them.

xp oi careful

Just calmly trawling, as I always do.

anyway ilx has long (always) been ever the more clenched and entrenched on those positions that exist more easily here than in the outside world.

when you lift yr leg around here you are pissing on ppls shelter from a crûl world

How does this thread stan for Corbyn if you post in it Jim?

― xyzzzz__, Monday, August 19, 2019 10:39 AM (thirteen minutes ago)

I'm considered pro-corbyn by the members of the british electorate that i personally know and i voted for labour in the last GE

Like, you think the past week of centrist faves lining up to be like, “unfortunately I cannot temporarily support a temporary Corbyn government because communism” shows anything besides the extent to how anti-left mainstream politics and their media supporters in this country is? You think a no-deal Brexit might be, idk, full of people looking for scapegoats and the kind of scapegoats people tend to find in these times? Who do you think those scapegoats might be?

Have you any idea how much anti-Irish sentiment in this country has racheted up over the last few years, how the government is literally supporting a fucking policy to let its soldiers get away with war crimes because they were only fucking Irish, after all? Like, one of the civilian victims was a man whose skull was used as an ashtray by soldiers. Do you understand how frightened I feel when the government are trying to pin the blame for a no-deal crash out on Ireland? Do you even understand the depth of my anger with Corbyn, MP for one of the most Irish constituencies btw, retaining a shadow defence secretary who followed the government’s dangerous line on that? Do you? Think on any of that before you accuse anyone itt of stanning for Corbyn again.

xp. despite being a fundamentalist scottish nationalist

Re: that IDS tweet he is a backbencher

This is true but he was also the head of Johnson’s leadership campaign and the CSJ has pretty close ties to the PM / current cabinet. It seems like the kind of thing you might put on the back burner if you didn’t want to make an issue of it right now.

I genuinely empathize, gyac, but tbpf such internal grievances don't come up very often in our little echo chamber.

Forgot that IDS was part of Johnson's campaign. Like the Dementia tax last time around it's as if Tories do need to say something about pensions/care that isn't comfortable for people to hear.

gyac has been quite vocal about her distaste towards nia griffiths, govt policy on NI etc wth

xp I literally posted about it & deems and I (and maybe AF) were angry about it on thread and elsewhere but idek what to say about this “internal grievance” bearing in mind it’s come up quite a few times

Oh yeah and I didn’t even mention the border & the effect of No Deal on Ireland’s economy ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Eh, one swallow does not a summer make. The discussion on antisemitism was also quite timid, as I recall. And who remembers Skripal?

Straight up telling me that I shouldn't complain about Corbyn's EU flip-flopping because there are other important issues is an instance of heavy-duty stanning and borderline insulting given the potential consequences.

I'm not minimizing other people's issues. I'm simply saying it's fair to expect more from Corbyn.

I mean you literally just fucking did.

I don't get why this has to be antagonistic at all.

Are we not in the same boat?

there’s been barely any discussion on the antisemitism issue on these threads

other issues where the corbyn stans itt have attacked the leadership: corbyn shagging “more bobbies on the beat” rhetoric; the leadership placating doofus remain ultras; not removing the whip from gardiner after he congratulated modi; not moving fast enough on democratisation of the party. I’m sure there are others - we share your high expectations

I'm quite pro-corbyn and find it hard to see what alternative there is considering the other party's are all intent on murdering disabled people

as tracer says the leadership have been very vocal about calls for défense of EU citizens rights and they are also doing everything they can to mitigate the potential worst excesses of a hard right brexit. they get a lot of the benefit of the doubt (as they did when they omitted to say they’d reverse tory welfare cuts in the 2017 manifesto) because... look at the core leadership’s voting records

xp i say this as someone "in the same boat"

Corbyn is quite monomaniacal and unrelenting in attacking the tories on austerity to the point that smug melts often sneer at him for this. It is a tragedy that this strength of opposition was sadly missing from the front bench in 2010-15 imo. I'll never forget that it was that Remainer grownup icon Y Cooper who gave a contract to ATOS to do the disastrous fit for work testing, and her that was attacking May from the right on immigration and advocating a hostile environment for immigrants. This was the fucking state of the PLP before Corbyn turned up, basically a mirror shadow cabinet of the Cameron government, with some decent rent control proposals tbf, but a fucking lame excuse for an opposition party which I wasn't happy to vote for.

don't make me post a picture of the mug

We all agree that as far as I know - we agree a lot of stuff, but we're understandably full of triggers about various things and every once in a while one of us will look at the sky and realise Boris Fucking Johnson is the PM and it goes a bit Harlan Ellison.

"Eh, one swallow does not a summer make. The discussion on antisemitism was also quite timid, as I recall. And who remembers Skripal?"

Lol what bollocks...yeah sure everyone was going well done Corbyn @ his handling of those issues. The assumption that lefty cranks are posting on this thread instead of a variety of voices. Which includes you and Fred. Don't take yourself out of it and criticize as if you are a brave outsider.

obv Corbyn should have downed a few beers and offered Putin out like some fucking demented schoolboy on m-cat during the Skripal incident, because that is what our Tory defence minister did, so it must be right.

have to say the reaction to someone saying this thread is full of corbyn stans has not been particularly contrary to what one would expect if the thread was full of corbyn stans

:-#

xp
why because the last few posts completely negate any criticism there has been for him on here?

makes u think of the fuckin craic you could have if there were a british politics version of morbs really givin it some to jemry cribin

corbyn is a minor miracle tbf but eesh

Jim you should check out some of that good 'ol crank left twitter if you think this thread is really pro-Corbyn.

Almost all who are posting in here will vote Labour despite all our issues with the party and I see these laid out here time and again. Pom doesn't need to make things up. There was never a light discussion on anti-semitism.

Almost all who are posting in here will vote Labour despite all our issues with the party

lol and g'nite!

Yes come back tomorrow, you need a good night's sleep.

Derby North MP Chris Williamson is taking to the road again with his "democracy roadshow".

The politician is urging Labour constituencies to back a mandatory re-selection process for sitting MPs.

He delivered the same message during a similar trip last year.

Mr Williamson - who is currently embroiled in a legal battle with Labour over his suspension from the party - has been making the case that Labour should adopt a rule change to ensure that MPs face such a process before each election.

He said: "Currently Labour MPs in safe seats have a job for life and that's not the way any normal democratic organisation should work."

He added that it "isn't radical or extraordinary, it is commonplace in other democracies around the world".

In a video, released on his social media accounts, Mr Williamson can be seen accompanied by the former president of the ASLEF train drivers union, Tosh McDonald, in a 1964 Ford Mustang convertible.

Corbyn's inattentive dithering over this fucking bellend is something he's constantly been hammered for on here.

Although I'm probably being harsh here, as SV pointed out - it's the rules etc.

In a video, released on his social media accounts, Mr Williamson can be seen accompanied by the former president of the ASLEF train drivers union, Tosh McDonald, in a 1964 Ford Mustang convertible.

haaaaaaaa