PMs change and lol we're all gonna die (but brexit will never end)

scottish labour is a viper’s nest of careerists and dimwits and dim witted careerists and sadly a lot of the left energy that could have been used for its renewal has been channelled (post-2014) into the SNP instead

McDonnell's position is an acceptance of reality that Leonard just hasn't done the business. Labour left is very -- due to McDonnell really -- pragmatic and there is a strategy there. Nothing dumb about it.

There's a strategy there, but I bet you it isn't "ah well, Scotland isn't going to vote for us so let's focus our energies elsewhere, eh?"

They only need to pick up about 2200 votes in the right places to win seven seats in Scotland.

one of those “top performers” davie clegg was eulogising in the comrade zebra piece above

EXCLUSIVE: Scottish Labour ‘kamikaze unionists’ issued indy parliamentary statement against Leonard’s wishes:

Leaked email shows Jackie Baillie MSP knew SLab leader Richard Leonard did not approve the publication of a statement on #indy:https://t.co/dikqx6HcXe pic.twitter.com/48AZzi1znK

— CommonSpace (@TheCommonSpace) August 8, 2019

matt dc otm

comrade alphabet. I’m getting my comrades mixed up. long day

Surely you’re comrade zebra...or had he subsequently been promoted?

what was I saying about nest of vipers

I want to make it clear I did not support this statement going out and neither did many other members of the Labour group - this is an abuse of position by the chair of the group https://t.co/b4n4BUrucI

— Neil Findlay MSP (@NeilFindlay_MSP) August 8, 2019

can anyone recommend anything on the scottish left's plans/thinking post-independence?

nationalising tunnocks and barr’s iirc

Proposing that the St. Andrew's flag be in the shape of a tattie scone.

Jermaine McSporran day.

Sorry not Scottish but sounds good

can anyone recommend anything on the scottish left's plans/thinking post-independence?

― ogmor, Thursday, August 8, 2019 10:36 AM (fifty-one minutes ago)

the 2014 referendum spurred a lot of activity in this area that has continued on afterwards. a lot of that is ephemeral, events, lectures. some of it is dotted about the blogosphere (e.g. on bella caledonia between analysis of political happenings and pieces about the gaelic language). there's some small press books like how to start a new country from the think tank common weal and after independence from luath press. no real central depository that i could point you towards however.

and it should be clarified that basically all pro-indepence voices in scotland are on the left (albeit many in the centre).

They only need to pick up about 2200 votes in the right places to win seven seats in Scotland.

― Matt DC, Thursday, 8 August 2019 bookmarkflaglink

You say it like it's easy but I don't get the sense Scottish Labour could pull it off.

look at the places they won last time - eg glasgow NE is now a labour seat

GE2015 result
Party Candidate Votes % ±
SNP Anne McLaughlin 21,976 58.1 +43.9
Labour Willie Bain 12,754 33.7 -34.7

SLAB were no less parlous in 2017

the thing is, labour can really only win seats off the snp in scotland, which won't help defeat the tories.

I’m not saying it won’t be difficult - sentiment towards SNP not as eroded as you would expect after however many years in charge. and both constitutional issues are very difficult terrain for SLAB. plus scottish public realm not as run down as I gather it is in england due to selectively careful stewardship by SNP - there are seams showing tho and SNP have disproportionately passed on cuts to local authorities eg in glasgow.

2017 was a a backlash election for snp, don't expect too much backsliding from that point in the immanent future tbh.

i mean glasgow north east that you mention only had a few hundred votes in it, could just as easily go back to snp as labour could win any current snp seat

could, of course, and concede that GE17 was a correction as unionist bloc organised itself more tactically. at the same time, labour’s ground game in scotland was rubbish in 17 and yet look at some of the swings. with a better, more targeted approach next time out... their main target seats could be theirs

I'd expect the Unionist Troll vote has been firmed up by Brexit but the Soft "Ruth Davidson impresses me" Unionist vote should be more vulnerable .

those are called lib dems

Probably.

I forgot Richard Leonard even existed until this morning or yesterday morning, whenever John McDonnell's comments were being discussed on Radio Scotland.

They only need to pick up about 2200 votes in the right places to win seven seats in Scotland.

― Matt DC, Thursday, 8 August 2019 17:02 (five hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

Apart from anything else*, this would be handy if they had 35 seats, but they've got 7, and the SNP have 35.

*= the rest of the thread since.

does BJ really think forcing through an NDB in the midst of a general election will provide sufficient positive bounce to counteract the supply chain disruption and cratering pound?

Apart from anything else*, this would be handy if they had 35 seats, but they've got 7, and the SNP have 35.

OK this is getting silly. Seven seats could make all the difference when the national picture is so finely balanced. I suspect McDonnell knows that and saying they won't actively block Indyref II is a way of tempting back wavering Scottish voters who want to vote for an unambiguously left-wing programme but also want at least the option of independence. I don't think they're writing Scotland off at all.

(I'm not sure it's possible for any Westminster government to out-and-out block another Scottish referendum but that's another question).

itll be celts against the rest before then anyway

xp to Matt DC - that interpretation of McDonnell's thinking makes absolute sense...unfortunately Scottish Labour are busy shooting it down.

They're idiots, trying to appeal to vague Unionist sentiments is the main reason they've ended up in this enfeebled state.

The ironic thing is, the Tories under Ruth the Mooth have played the Scottish card more adroitly than these clowns.

Agreed.

You could argue, and this is the height of irony, that the SNP have played the Unionist card more adroitly, with their commitment to keep the Queen as head of state.

not scottish labour shooting it down - but rw kamikaze unionists, in defiance of the leadership

those clowns never pass by an opportunity to shoot themselves in the foot. not satisfied with running disastrous campaigns in GE15 UK and GE16 SCO... they’re still trying to wreck the party’s prospects and they’re not even in charge. entitlement complex

Months after the SNP’s first Scottish parliament election win in 2007, George Foulkes, then a Labour MSP for the Lothians region, appeared on the BBC’s Scotland at Ten television programme. Discussing the SNP’s early performance in government, Foulkes argued that the party were “on a very dangerous tack. What they are doing is trying to build up a situation in Scotland where the services are manifestly better than south of the border in a number of areas.” Colin Mackay, the show’s presenter, was confused. “Is that a bad thing?” “No,” admitted Foulkes, “but they are doing it deliberately...”
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/scotland/2019/08/scottish-labour-must-stop-treating-nationalism-virus-be-cured

those sneaky nationalist bastards

clear out every last single one of these better together shagging fucks

You fucking disgrace.

— Duncan Hothersall (@dhothersall) August 9, 2019

rory scothorne is a great writer

worth reading this article from earlier in the year. Quite clear that this pact with the Lib Dems is more than just a temporary tactical gambit for the Greens, and instead reflects a more fundamental political shift https://t.co/c0BK3L3k0X

— tom (@malaiseforever) August 9, 2019

More generally the party is concentrating on “green thinking” people, those who are really concerned quite narrowly with environmental questions. Taken together with the “People’s Vote” axis, this denotes a distinct middle class orientation which inevitably moves the party in a rightward direction. No longer a social democratic anti-austerity party, but “eco-libdem” with councillors morphing into a band of Lib Dem lookalikes with a green streak.

also worth noting that it didn't go well for Euro-greens that got into pacts with austerity parties in recent history.

fight the real enemy huh

Eat the rich.
https://ft.com/content/b2d275aa-ba73-11e9-96bd-8e884d3ea203

any party getting into pacts with pro-austerity ones that would actually prop up another tory government are the people's enemy!

Clickthrough link here

Canary Wharf is assumed to be a hotbed of Remainers. But some senior bankers are changing their tune post-Boris. One even told me he thought No Deal would be good for business. https://t.co/xgoTjfOUo1

— David Crow (@bydavidcrow) August 9, 2019

xps. the greens in scotland remain the most left-wing party with parliamentary representation on every issue

“Theoretically, if you have a disruption like a hard Brexit, you should see higher levels of volatility in interest rates, foreign exchange rates, and credit spreads,” he said. “An intermediary in that world should do better.”

there it is