Quentin Tarantino's Manson murders movie

Hey guys! So I am gonna see this next week!

we cant wait for you to hate it lol

ilx discussion to-date makes me expect I will like it tbh

going again tonight ($5 DCP screening)

Tarantino should totally do a Tiranic film where they kick that fuckin' iceberg's ass

― Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Sunday, August 4, 2019 8:37 PM (two days ago)

^^^^^
Lol.

xpost :D

HUSH
HUSH

NAAAAAAH
NANA
NAAHHH
NANA
NAAHHH
NANA
NAAHHH

(BOMP BOMP BOMP BA BOMP BA BOMP BOMP)

That song makes everything better despite its crap lyrics.

Killer jams & crap lyrics is Deep Purple’s eternal guarantee to you

The jams transcend.

it’s kinda crazy that Hush is their first single. like, way to make an entrance.

Ian Paice is so funky

Purple didn’t write Hush tho, Joe South did

oh thats true huh
well, still very on-brand for them

Deep Purple were awesome, I won't countenance any argument on that point

no one itt has suggested otherwise

I'm just preempting any potential argument

there will be no such thing while i live & breathe

I still am thinking a lot about the movie

One of the things I really like but that has been slow to coalesce for me is the character of Rick.

There is something about his flawed shallowness that is poignant. It’s weirdly touching to see Rick slowly grasp some basic fundamentals of acting. while it’s funny to see his mind get blown by little Maddie’s truthbombs, it also in a subtle way strikes at the heart of this breed of actor that Tarantino is showing us. he came to Hollywood to be The Guy, to be cool & handsome & say the lines in the right way, and his whole career was made on that alone.

His discovery of something more than that, of an enjoyment of going a little deeper, is important, but in a small, seemingly insignificant way storywise.

it gives him a little bit of hope that there is still enjoyment in this for him. Even in a villain role in someone else’s show. That makes him less worried about failing & maybe lets him enjoy the possibility of doing something different to what he’s done befire. that seems to be why he changes his mind about going to Italy.

It’s not that now he understands acting & is going to build on that to hone his craft & blow everyone away. He’s still Rick Dalton & his learning curve is fairly shallow. But maybe now that he’s seen that all of his experience, even the bad parts, makes his acting better, not worse, maybe just -knowing~ that means he won’t ever go back to the point where blowing his brains out in the pool is even a remote possibilty.

I dunno. I’ve always been interested in that idea from tv and b movies anyway. The struggles of an ~average~ actor and how many (unlike Rick) never made it past their worst, loneliest moment.

*maddie? trudi

In The Los Angeles Times, Mary McNamara observed that the moral of Tarantino’s new fairy tale, “Once Upon A Time In … Hollywood,” is, “Who doesn’t miss the good old days when cars had fins and white men were the heroes of everything?”

Dubbing the cowboys-versus-hippies movie starring Brad Pitt and Leonardo DiCaprio “nostalgia porn,” McNamara notes: “Watching two middle-aged white guys grapple with a world that does not value them as much as they believe it should, it was tough not to wonder if that something was the same narrow, reductive and mythologized view of history that has made red MAGA hats the couture of conservative fashion.”

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/BoldLeanAracari-size_restricted.gif

Lol I've been pleasantly surprised by how few unfair negative reviews and insane takes like that there have been

Not inconceivable I will see this in theaters a 3rd time.

they grapple with it... successfully! Pacino's character giving forward-looking advice that Dalton actually takes, playing a role where he's not immediately recognizable and then spinning his career off into Italy for his own fistful of dollars, as it was

you could even claim this is an alternate history where an aging white man adapts for the times in order to make it

otm

and Cliff drives a Karmann Ghia.

watching two middle-aged white guys grapple with a world that does not value them as much as they believe it should

Dalton doesn't believe the world should value him - basically the whole movie he's struggling with believing he's a fraud!

loved Cliff's Karmann Ghia, it made me miss mine so bad

looked like the same one Uma drove in Kill Bill 2

it was!

God, I just realized that Pacino does the ending of Scarface in the first scene

How so?

I liked Pacino, but I don't get that either (conceding that I have thankfully forgotten most everything from Scarface).

I haven't seen Scarface in a long, long time myself, but it's the moment where Pacino pretends to be firing a machine gun at a room full of people while he's enthusing about Leo's action movies - you know, "I like the ones with a lot of killing," and Leo bashfully saying "Yeah, there's a lotta killing." Anyway, in that moment Pacino is basically re-doing the "say hello to my little friend!" moment from Scarface in miniature in an L.A. restaurant instead of in a cokelord's mansion with an actual gun as The Law closes in.

Good catch, Flappy. I *knew* there was something else in that scene but I didn't quite grasp it during either of my two viewings of Once Upon...

We'll see if this link works when I post it here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GyInWVCxGw

iirc the flamethrower comes from that scene too

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAF5c8bGN0M

Yea, what Ray said. "I love those movies, with all the killing" and then he does the machine gun thing

Scarface is one of Tarantino's favourite films (I think), so I guess that makes sense. That he'd refer to it, I mean--not that Scarface would be one of anybody's favourite films. Pacino's character seemes to walk out of Grace of My Heart or Love and Mercy.

saw this yesterday, still turning it over in my head. thread has done a great job of articulating a lot of what was so great and generous and thought-provoking about it, and also what was frustrating. i didn't feel the length at all, i could have spent ages in this world... but the sadistic glee of the violence, particularly the head-bashing and the torching of an already-incapacitated woman, really didn't grow out of anything for me or justify themselves in any way. yes, manson's minions were fucked up people on their way to do evil, but it rubbed me the wrong way, in tandem with the awful natalie wood allusion and especially with the little girl actor showing off the padded costume: QT trolling his critics, "what these dummies complaining about violence against women don't get is that it's a MOVIE, they're ACTORS" --- when one of the more serious charges against him is that he actually, really endangered a female actor on set. these gestures are obnoxious and immature, imo. i also agree that nothing required bruce lee to be depicted as a bragging jackass awaiting his comeuppance.

but to be clear, leo with the little girl was riveting. i really loved the entire on-set sequence. a cute but still effective move: taking us through something with all the brewing tension of the IB basement bar scene, then stopping it three times to highlight the performances and camera moves and wardrobe and rehearsal tapes and studio backlots and supporting cast that make it work. the director on-set seem to barely be contributing beyond the fairly silly "evil hamlet" concept. the film opens with the actor giving credit to the stuntman, and makes sure to include cutaways to lee as trainer/choreographer to point out that he deserves some of the applause tate's absorbing in that theater.

maybe as much as IB's climax this has something to say about cinema and auteurism and genre: QT's true loves are hollywood schlock and the various equivalents of the spaghetti knockoff pictures depicted in the middle, and in all of these he seems to think the machine as a whole matters more than the auteur, and wants to give credit to those people, as much as to "hollywood 1969." which is maybe why him using the film in a personal, auteury way --- to wind up QT critics or indulge specific QT fetishes --- when it has no larger moral compass or reason to be made, feels so childish.

but the sadistic glee of the violence, particularly the head-bashing and the torching of an already-incapacitated woman, really didn't grow out of anything for me or justify themselves in any way. yes, manson's minions were fucked up people on their way to do evil, but it rubbed me the wrong way, in tandem with the awful natalie wood allusion and especially with the little girl actor showing off the padded costume: QT trolling his critics, "what these dummies complaining about violence against women don't get is that it's a MOVIE, they're ACTORS" --- when one of the more serious charges against him is that he actually, really endangered a female actor on set. these gestures are obnoxious and immature, imo.

Why is the ending "QT trolling" and the ending of IB isn't? Privileging Susan & Patricia's gender first and foremost is truly bizarre and frankly offensive. What about Tex? And "they were just mixed up kids..." I truly do not know where to begin. That's so wildly offensive to me. They fucking cut Sharon Tate open! How is this any different than the ending of IB? If this is his love letter to Hollywood and cinema itself, is the ending not an exact reflection of the ending of IB and the ability of the cinema to fulfill naive wishes and reverse history and awful tragedy?

to wind up QT critics or indulge specific QT fetishes --- when it has no larger moral compass or reason to be made, feels so childish.

Why is everyone so sure he is "winding" anyone up? And as for indulgences and "why was this made" - oh my god! it's a work of art. Not everything is a public service announcement. What do you expect him to do? Work at the Red Cross? Good lord...

I don't want to be nasty and I agree fully about the Bruce Lee scene but I can't believe people are defending the MANSON MURDERERS I feel like I am going insane!

flappy'd strangle baby hitler with his bare hands

It's not fucking funny

wait when did I call them "mixed up kids" ?

and who's defending the manson murderers? all i said was that lingering on the violence didn't sit well with me. i didn't like the scene, didn't think it added to the movie, and in the context of a filmmaker who is practically persona non grata among a lot of my friends because of his reveling in violence against women in movie after movie, it seemed like the gratuity of it was there on purpose, to double down, to wind up. none of that is a defense of the murderers, any more than if i'd said I didn't like that scene because it broke the pace of the movie or derailed the central pitt/dicaprio relationship.

there is something queasy to me about visceral violence played for laughs. "they're the manson family murderers!" doesn't deflect from that. like sure, alternative reality where someone takes them out before they commit their horrific crimes, why not? doesn't mean you need to luxuriate in the violence so much, but that's kind of QT's deal obv.

Not sure how to take it myself but on second viewing it almost feels as if a kind of explosive rage escapes from Cliff (which was amply foreshadowed of course). Something about the cartoonish mayhem seems parallel to the (far worse!) actual events--maybe it has to be somewhat extreme to work as catharsis or whatever QT is going for.

it's carnage cum slapstick

i was simultaneously skeeved out by it and amused, and when rick headed for his shed i knew what was coming, and laughed in recognition when it came out