2020 Democratic presidential primary

Yeah booker had a good night. I liked him tonight.

man that was an exceptionally boring debate

i did kind of appreciate biden calling something "a bunch of malarkey," like he's a character in a wc fields movie or something

^^He did that to Ryan in '12.

Look, here’s the deal
1... thats number 1
2 .... thats number 2
And 3 ... so thats what I did

Except when they both decide to cling on to the bitter end

They should both cling on, they’re the two best policy candidates by eight billion miles & the only reason I don’t want a Warren / Sanders ticket is that they are both eight billion years old

(I want a Warren / Sanders ticket.)

yeah biden is fine. I'd just like to shoot higher.

Biden is absolute dogshit prima facie, and will probably be showing as many dementia symptoms as Trump by the time of inauguration

(Warren & Sanders are both sharp and capable now: my ageism is based on the unlikelihood that in ten years they will both be sharp or capable. Biden seems medically ...OK now, but has repeatedly demonstrated that he is incapable of learning or listening, completely apart from his 23/7 gargling the taint of corporate interests.)

booker seems like the happiest person of the field

It’s likely that if a dem wins in 2020 they will inherit a recession, a war, or both. Can’t imagine anyone worse than Biden in that situation.

sarah fucking vowell has been the worst for decades now

it makes total sense that she’d be holding it down for the center right on a NYT “singles jukebox for politics” thing though

"Morning" Joe, panicking, wonders why the candidates "went after" Barack Obama instead of Trump; they're only helping Donald Trump, he said. He's right -- I remember 2015 when the GOP candidates attacked Trump, thus securing Hilary Clinton her electoral and popular vote triumph.

bad morning!

and the tax returns?

Biden seems medically ...OK now, but has repeatedly demonstrated

Apologies for posting this from a bar and not actually watching the debate: dude is going faster than Trump, without snorting dexys to cover up for it, this thread suggests

It’s all senior moments, all night https://t.co/xAdcAyry2H

— 29 U.S.C. § 157 (@OrganizingPower) August 1, 2019

so what was the joeboobo thing?

The funniest thing about Biden last night is that, I guess because he's so afraid of a gaffe, he's the only politician I've ever seen in these things who willing stops the second the moderator tells him his time's up. (Not every time, but routinely.) He kind of raises his hands and stops talking mid-sentence.

willingly

He was so slappable when he pulled a "you used to be so nice to me, but I guess you are being mean because you are running for president" which was a weird ass moment.

"booker seems like the happiest person of the field" Booker normally seems hella intense partly because bald and also because of his eyes, so I wondered if he dialed up the joviality to offset that

if he did, it worked

i regret to inform you that the wapo fact-checkers are back on their bullshit

Fact check: Medicare-for-all would increase federal expenditures https://t.co/LIBN8Zds1N

— The Washington Post (@washingtonpost) August 1, 2019

good lord i feel like the democratic skeptics of M4A _enjoy_ getting their shit handed to them by republicans

warren and sanders: under m4a you will pay less money bc u wont be paying premiums anymore and the gov can control the cost of health care like they do in many other countries whose health care is better
dem voters: FINALLY
establishment dems: oh you like this idea?
bad faith gop: but what about taxes
establishment dems: OH SHIT WHAT ABOUT TAXES

establishment dems: *falls asleep on mattress full of $100 bills donated by insurance and pharmaceutical companies*

i regret to inform you that the wapo fact-checkers are back on their bullshit

Yeah, that's a little loose with the definition of "fact".

glenn kessler is a fuckin weasel tbh

Y'all, if you missed Biden's closing statement, you gotta find a video if it. That shit had me cracking UP. Apparently, in order to avoid "8 more years" of Trump, we have to "go to Joe… 3… 0… 3… 0… 3?” You could see his brain leaking out his ears.

warren and sanders: under m4a you will pay less money bc u wont be paying premiums anymore and the gov can control the cost of health care like they do in many other countries whose health care is better
dem voters: FINALLY
establishment dems: oh you like this idea?
bad faith gop: but what about taxes
establishment dems: OH SHIT WHAT ABOUT TAXES

― Carisis LaVerted (m bison), Thursday, August 1, 2019 10:03 AM (thirteen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

idk if it was posted here but this bullshit played out perfectly after Tuesday's debate with Chris Matthews incessantly grilling Warren about whether M4All would cause taxes to go up. It's really sickening to have to see everyone play this very transparent game, where the media is just so desperate not to inform people about a specific issue but just to trap a candidate in a gotcha! moment they can then spend the next year and a half obsessing over. I don't blame Liz but it sucks that she can't give an inch on saying "yes your taxes might go up" because she's smart enough to know that would be the ONLY takeaway from the whole conversation, not the very relevant fact that overall household expenses would significantly decrease. idk who to blame more, the average citizen for being so dumb and easily played that they would immediately latch onto any intimation of increased taxes and rail against it reflexively as an evil, or the media for making them that way.

Matthews is and always has been a hideous mouthbreather. Why MSDNC isn't held at a similar reputational level as Fox I'm not sure.

I don't even get MSNBC anymore and I can't say I've missed it. Chris Hayes is the only redeemable person on that network and I can get plenty of him from Twitter and his podcast, which are both superior to his TV show anyway.

employer: it’s about time we gave you a big raise.

employee: no thanks.

employer: why not?

employee: my taxes will go up.

I know people who have said things like that!!!

do these people know how marginal tax rates work or...

no

MOAR TAX BAD

And yet, analogously, it’s around this basic, pre-k level understanding of health care costs and taxes that the Dem debate is still stuck at. It’s maddening.

*choir preaching mode fade-out*

idk if someone already shared this maddening exchange between warren and chris matthews:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlHik6YAPns

i sort of understand why liz doesn't want to make a blanket statement like "your savings on monthly premiums will more than offset your raise in taxes," but isn't that at least mostly true?

i hate chris matthews

do these people know how marginal tax rates work or...

― Carisis LaVerted (m bison), Thursday, August 1, 2019 10:34 AM (twenty minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Transferring to a single payer system, there is still going to millions and millions of americans who will both have tax raise and lose their cozy private health insurance. It is going to be really hard to convince to let go of both liquid and that insurance. And as much a think single payer is the best system available, it is a legit concern considering how bruising it was getting the ACA to exist.

srsly fuck Chris Mathews but I don't think there's anything to be gained by not answering this question. It's not like it's going to go away. Now, in fact, is the right time to do it, to get ppl inured to the taxes part during primary season so that it can't be weaponized as effecively later.

Just come out with it about the taxes and start messaging hard, full-time, about the net savings. Explaining policy is one of her strengths.

Otm

https://frinkiac.com/video/S06E21/VGBAgrpe1xA9CbrSltx21I2zAbo=.gif

https://frinkiac.com/meme/S06E21/857556.jpg?b64lines=IFRIRSBUQVhFUyEgVEhFIEZJTkdFUgogVEhJTkcgTUVBTlMgVEhFIFRBWEVTLg==

In a strange way I think Bernie has inoculated himself against the same problem by his refusal (or inabaility?) to qualify "Socialism."

Whether or not by design, his puzzling and frustrating failure to explain—as loudly and repetitively as he does income inequality—that we already have socialist policies and that he is, in fact, a capitalist, has paid a dividend in his never having to apologize or backtrack.

Transferring to a single payer system, there is still going to millions and millions of americans who will both have tax raise and lose their cozy private health insurance. It is going to be really hard to convince to let go of both liquid and that insurance. And as much a think single payer is the best system available, it is a legit concern considering how bruising it was getting the ACA to exist.

― Van Horn Street, Thursday, August 1, 2019 11:01 AM (thirteen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

and recycling republican talking points like this helps no one

people dislike taxes not because they’re taxes (ok, some people have ideological reasons), but because it’s money out of their paycheck and out of their pocket. under a compressive single payer plan like the one sanders proposes, taxes for the middle class would increase, but they would no longer be paying premiums, deductibles, or copays. they are not on balance losing money in this deal and it is so infuriating to focus on “taxes” as if that is the only fixed cost families deal with

i'd hardly describe my health insurance as "cozy." more of "a scam" really

which is why i think it's good that warren didn't succumb to matthews' badgering--he was just trying to get a soundbite of warren saying 'i'm gonna raise taxes'

right. and warren not answering matthews' bad faith question was shrewd in order to protect the idea from becoming "dEmOcRaTs WaNnA rAiSe YoUr TaXeS!!!!"

xp lol

republicans want to turn the m4a debate into: higher taxes and they take away the medicare for olds

the thing is they are gonna do that ANYWAY. It's not a soundbite you can dodge for sixteen months. They'll just sub in her stammering, bumbling refusal to answer the question, which will play just as bad, but with none of the advantages of clearly explaining the policy.

which isn't to say she should succumb to Matherws' or anybody else's hectoring but get out in front with it of her own volition, on the stump, and deprive them the "gotcha"