Quentin Tarantino's Manson murders movie

It's certainly way better than the last 2. I'm baffled by the people who think Django is one of his best movies. I thought it was hot garbage.

"Joyless" feelings given me by IB is what made me quit this supernerd's output. As someone wrote on L'boxd, "I’m just not that interested in all the shit and obscure minutiae floating around inside Tarantino’s head."

xpost It's much better than the last two. However, I think this movie's success, unfortunately, hinges on those last 20-25 minutes, so imo how you feel about the preceding 2+ hours - and there's a lot to like - is tempered by how you feel about the conclusion. And tbh I didn't even dislike those last 20-25 minutes, I just think they were a lame way to end this particular movie.

I only saw Django once, and while iirc it had so many more problems than this one, to the best of my memory one of the big ones was that it indulgently ended twice. That is, the movie reaches a logical conclusion, then there's the long digression with Tarantino as an Aussie, and then the movie basically backtracks and gets a redundant second conclusion? Something like that. With Hateful 8 (again, saw it once), I want to say the thing that hurt it the most was the redundant, unnecessary flashback, which was similarly indulgent and detrimental.

Ultimately, it's not the movie references and minutia that overstuff these films, imo, it's that there is just not enough story or depth to the characters. I liked Basterds a lot, but not for all the titular Brad Pitt bullshit. It was (from memory; now that I think about it I've not seen *any* of his post Kill Bill movies more than once) the richness of the Shosanna character that drew me in and enhanced the payoff. These last three were nowhere near as satisfying to me. I like the characters in this one, they're fun, but they add up to nothing, imo, and the conclusion is a bs means of imposing a Big Cultural Statement where there is none.

But obviously there is plenty of disagreement here.

has anyone watched the longer cut of Hateful 8 that's on Netflix (broke into hour segments)?

I read a few things that said it was misleading. Like this:

That “extended version” moniker is a tad deceptive, though: While the full runtime for the miniseries version of the movie clocks in at about 211 minutes, each episode also contains roughly 8 minutes of opening and ending credits that were mostly absent from the original film. As such, the miniseries reportedly mostly resembles the 187-minute extended “roadshow” version that Tarantino toured around the country in 70 mm, give or take a few edits, extra scenes, and alternate takes here and there.

I watched the Netflix series and kind of liked it better than my previous viewing of the cinematic version. I think it was mostly down to be less bothered by the interminable run time when broken up into episodes.

I haven't seen either so have been debating which one to watch; I'll probably do the 4 parter.

https://www.thewrap.com/bruce-lee-daughter-mockery-once-upon-a-time-in-hollywood-shannon-lee/

hey there was no n word in the script for the first time ever. baby steps

"Hippie" was the epithet thrown around in its place.

Yeah this might be the first one - not sure about IB or Death Proof, haven't seen either since they came out, does he use it in either? Can't remember a context or scene where it would make sense

No N word, and also ... no black characters.

the only way QT can excise the n word is to have no black people in the movie, damn

Right

i want to see this because i like LA, and i like LA movies, especially those set in the 60s and 70s. but generally late tarantella (lol) is not my favourite

Didn't mention how cool it was to see Lena Dunham in a big movie. Hope she does more acting.

Dakota Fanning was awesome. She's been keeping kind of a low profile, but she's fantastic in darker roles- Kelly Reichardt's Night Moves is carried by her and Peter Sarsgaard (Jesse Eisenberg stars and sucks)

xp It really reminded me of Altman, particularly California Split (another melancholic hangout movie that suddenly becomes really sad at the end)

https://y.yarn.co/4f6e92cc-bde5-4acb-b7fe-633e33f5c13a_screenshot.jpg

XP

when i saw the movie i thought that the bruce lee fight was what cliff was imagining his day on set to be like if Dicaprio hadn't sent him home...i did not realize it was supposed to have actually happened, that is in pretty fuckin poor taste

I only saw Django once, and while iirc it had so many more problems than this one, to the best of my memory one of the big ones was that it indulgently ended twice. That is, the movie reaches a logical conclusion, then there's the long digression with Tarantino as an Aussie, and then the movie basically backtracks and gets a redundant second conclusion?

this is totally fair and why i def don't think it's one of his "best"; just his only good one besides IG (and to a lesser extent Hollywood) this century.

tho tbf i have not seen KB2

KB2 is good.

.i did not realize it was supposed to have actually happened,

It helps if one knows something about the Green Hornet show, which was filmed in '66-'67.

BTW, I believe the whole Green Hornet series is up in watchable quality rips on YouTube, and it's worth checking out if you're into '60s action stuff.

Tarantino loves two things: "cinema" in some abstract way, and sadistic violence. Consequently, the "cinema" that he loves concretely is the metagenre of, you know, very violent movies: classical westerns, samurai films, war pictures, gangster sagas, the world of the grindhouse.

— Joshua Clover (@joshuaclov3r) July 30, 2019

Also: Feet

I don't see the Manson Family as portrayed here as representative of hippies or leftists. I think he sees them as murderers akin to the historical villains of his other films. With their bloodthirstiness and cop-out excuses about TV violence they strike me more as antecedents of the mass shooters of today.

Also, the film's one anti-hippie rant that I remember comes from Rick, a buffoon even when sober, who at that moment is totally drunk and oblivious.

Every single person making any comment about feet in this movie should be barred from all forms of public speech for one month, unless it can be shown that they have previously made a minimum of twenty complaints about directors who habitually show actors using hands, body language or facial expressions to convey character.

with the caveat that I haven't seen this movie & probably won't, Clover's thread feels weird to me from its opening gambit: "x love y. consequently" hold up hold up. why/how "abstract" - is T's use of reference-as-vocabulary "abstract"? Is allusion abstraction? what work is "loves" doing in this thread? etc

yeah seriously who gives a shit that you saw some fucking feet in a movie

But feet aren't one of the half dozen or so body parts that are regularly fetishized in movies and other media, so eww.

I've never seen certain people more satisfied with themselves and happy to repeat the joke than when they figure out a glaringly obvious recurring theme in a famous director's work.

I don't see the Manson Family as portrayed here as representative of hippies or leftists.

point of fact, Manson was not a hippie or leftist, he was a vicious little crook who quickly sussed out that the hippie scene was full of easy marks. he was explicitly racist and race war was at the heart of his agenda/philosophy. he was influenced by dale carnegie which he had read in a prison stint.

this was a great book that really cut through the mythology and was grippingly told.

https://www.amazon.com/Manson-Life-Times-Charles/dp/1451645171/ref=asc_df_1451645171/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312176338241&hvpos=1o3&hvnetw=g&hvrand=17098841435305716303&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9019659&hvtargid=aud-643191255296:pla-567197841809&psc=1&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=60258870897&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=312176338241&hvpos=1o3&hvnetw=g&hvrand=17098841435305716303&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9019659&hvtargid=aud-643191255296:pla-567197841809

xxxxxp

just the feet of woman, sic. And if you already don't rate his work the sense he is jerking off on the job makes it even more fucking unpalatable.

Tarantino's ongoing goal as a director seems, to me, to attempt to tell increasingly meandering shaggy dog stories while having moments of tight dialog punctuated by absurdist violence and a thin overarching plot

Mission accomplished on this one. The Bruce Lee fight is pure fantasy and is one of a handful of scenes that strain credulity. I can't remember what I recently read or listened to that made the point that filmmakers are discouraged from breaking the fourth wall in any way in a lot of films of the modern era, but this movie does so in a handful of obvious ways that some reviews are taking too literally.

And if you already don't rate his work the sense he is jerking off on the job makes it even more fucking unpalatable.

Why did you pay to go to the film, then?

Every single person making any comment about feet in this movie should be barred from all forms of public speech for one month, unless it can be shown that they have previously made a minimum of twenty complaints about directors who habitually show actors using hands, body language or facial expressions to convey character.

― quelle sprocket damage (sic), Tuesday, July 30, 2019 12:31 PM (one hour ago)

this is so obtuse. he has a foot thing. it's the equivalent of a male director always having his female stars have their breasts out. it's for his own titillation.

is there a scene inside Musso & Franks?

xp: It could be for everybody's titillation if they'd just open their goddamn minds to some erotic podiatry.

What is the issue with his foot fetish

xxxp lol not seen it and never will cos he bores me to death. just responding to other people's comments on how much gratuitous female foot fetish porn he has done this time.

it's the equivalent of a male director always having his female stars have their breasts out.

he's not Russ Meyer. It's the equivalent of a male director having a single boob shot in a majority of films, which is hardly some novel or unusual transgression.

er single boob shot per film in a majority of his films

ie Tarantino averages one female foot shot per film, with a few exceptions noted upthread (Reservoir Dogs, Hateful Eight, and Django)

are you people still HERE?

xxxp lol not seen it and never will cos he bores me to death. just responding to other people's comments on how much gratuitous female foot fetish porn he has done this time.

also i don't think that is inherently problematic for a film to reflect a director's sexuality, as such i'm pretty confused why he gets so much hate for this especially when it's always been such a minute FOOTnote in his films

i first noticed it in kill bill vol. 1, and despite what people on twitter think, it's not a very interesting thing to notice

xposts!

Morbs: yes, and outside

he has a foot thing.

that's nice, dear

it's for his own titillation.

a) when Tate puts her feet up in the theatre, it's an indicator of how she's dropping the presentation of her dressed-up day out. She wasn't recognised outside, though she really wanted to be; in the darkness afterward she relaxes into celebrating herself, shoes off and feet up as though she's at home.

Cliff is the most casual character in the film before Pussycat re-suceeds at hitching. Tate is making an image. Rick is starting to unravel because his image has collapsed and he doesn't know how to make a new one. Lee is hypersensitive to how hard he has to work be taken seriously at all, then again to be acknowledged on top of that. Janet is hypervigilant to keeping her set running smoothly and safely for hundreds of workers. Schwarz is constantly "on." Wanamaker wears a blowdried coif and a cape to go to work in dust. Throughout, Cliff projects an ease and a lack of face, from his carriage to his clothes to the carelessness with which he serves Brandy.
When Pussycat puts her feet on his dash, squishing the pads against the windscreen, he's reframed as an example of uptight society, not a barely-engaged outsider from it. His car is kinda shitty, maybe, but he has a car. His denim is weathered, but it's a style. The scene sets up the new protagonist-type role he's going to take in the following third of the film. Pussycat flexes her toes for sheer celebratory pleasure; Cliff has until now been the film's character most comfortable in his body, but now we see that by contrast he's wary, tense, and conscious.

Bridget Fonda wiggling her toes at DeNiro in Jackie Brown is sexual: this is not a flaw. Characters in film lean over to display cleavage, and they flex biceps and hold, and they touch each other's faces, and they let legs show through long slits in dresses or from behind curtains. Humans have bodies in real life too. DeNiro's character has not had female contact in years, and probably has no particular interest in feet. Fonda's character is able to spark his libido out in the open before Odell leaves, and in a way that puts him on the back foot, by flirting at him with her feet. If another director would have had her drop an ice cube down her bikini, or had Joe Mangianello bend at the waist to tie his shoe in a gas station, that doesn't make QT incorrect to have Fonda bend her tarsals.

b) stop the fucking presses, Quentin Tarantino puts his personal interests into his movies? holy shit what a revelation, let's go back and excise every one of his obsessions from every script he's ever written so that they immediately become 90% more interesting

To me, the foot thing is just a funny and peculiar maker's mark that we can have fun with too.

holy canoli I'm starting to think ilx has a foot fetish

I like Orson Welles' remarks about Luis Bunuel:

He's a rich feeding ground for that sort of critic, because it's all true about him. You can take off and say he likes feet and all that. Jesus, it's all true. He's that kind of intellectual, and that kind of Catholic. He is a deeply Christian man who hates God as only a Christian can, and, of course, he's very Spanish. I see him as the most supremely religious director in the history of the movies. A superb kind of person he must be. Everyone loves him.