Quentin Tarantino's Manson murders movie

It's escapism at its most humane, not in spite of its violence but because of it. It's a universal, prefrontal primate wish for the "evil people" to be the ones to die brutally painful deaths.

Poetic as your defense is, you are positing that the primitive desire to see people you hate writhing in their painful death throes is the "most humane" of fantasies. That's not how I would use that word.

Exaggeration got the best of me. You're right, it is not the most humane of fantasies but it is the most humane catharsis of this primate wish. Off the top of my head, Spike Lee offers two similarly naively optimistic fantasy endings in He Got Game and 25th Hour. I was completely blindsided by the ending of La La Land, a movie that doesn't offer much except for its fantasy ending, a montage that actually does show what cinema can do in a much wider and truly humane scope than Once Upon a Time. But weren't many people moved by the similarly over the top and gruesome spectacle at the end of Inglourious Basterds? I saw the ending of Once Upon a Time as similarly exultant, because I don't personally hate the Manson family, I have no connection to them or the Nazis other than a shared cultural trauma. And to reverse reality as QT does in both films, is an act of compassion I think, violent as it may be.

I think our concept of compassion differs somewhat radically, too.

I was unmoved by the gruesome spectacle at the end of IB. As Katherine Hepburn said in The African Queen, "Nature, Mr. Allnut, is what we were placed on earth to rise above.

But weren't many people moved by the similarly over the top and gruesome spectacle at the end of Inglourious Basterds?

I brought this up earlier, because as a "shared cultural trauma" the impact of WWII was, obviously, vastly wider and more impactful in scale. There have been hundreds of "what if?" WWII scenarios explored in art, not least because it truly is a "shared" cultural trauma that affected hundreds of millions of people around the world. Ergo, the fantasy of killing Hitler is one that's been similarly shared by countless people. It's even a trope (killing baby Hitler, etc.). But Manson? He's nowhere near that level. It would be akin to the movie concluding with Cliff and Rick rescuing Meredith Hunter at Altamont.

I wonder if Tarantino has a notebook filled with epochal events he could subvert. "What if Bruce Lee lived to foil the 9/11 hijackers?" "What if the Titanic didn't sink and was subsequently converted into a WWI battleship?" "What if Custer didn't die at Little Bighorn?"

"What if Donald Trump had won the presidency?"

(I'm sure that one is crossed out in his notebook)

It all starts with this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJJYVORSP_w&t=92s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJJYVORSP_w&t=92s

Well...I don't know: I thought you just had to adjust the https on a YouTube. Anyway, it's at youtube.com/watch?v=eJJYVORSP_w&t=92s.

looks like first weekend will be between 40-45 million, QT's best opening weekend ever

That old Manson magic. Public can't get enough of it.

Was messaging with a Gen-X friend who's a playwright and who also grew up as a Helter Skelter fan and wroteL "For me, it was like the monsters came alive. Sheesh, us Gen Xers have had those specters haunting us for 50 yrs. Good “what if” tale that tries to exorcise that pain."

And it's true that as 70s kids we grew up with the cynicism of everything having a "dark underbelly" and to me as well the movie has a tone that feels like SoCal Tarantino in a world where Manson never existed.

Right, of course it's on a significantly smaller scale than WWII - but it is a shared cultural trauma nonetheless.

"shared cultural trauma" lol stop it!

How is it not? By no means is it WWII but it’s an American tragedy nonetheless - is “shared pop cultural trauma” any better?

I've talked to a few friends that want to see it based on ads and they don't really seem to know Manson has anything to do with it

Gen X's elevation of this subliterate to cultural godhead will never be forgiven. Puts all boomer crimes in perspective.

― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Saturday, July 27, 2019 11:48 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

Dismantling the social safety net, speeding the world toward climate apocalypse....liking Quentin Tarantino....six of one, half dozen of the other

Imo Manson has next to nothing to do with this movie. Manson does have everything to do with the last 20 minutes or so, but then again, I'm not sure if the last 20 minutes or so have anything to do with the movie either.

seemed obv to me that the last 20 mins is the alternative fiction jumping off pt to the whole thing & qt worked backwards from there; idk if the movie works w/o it (to the extent it 'works'); agree w jordan that idk why this was made + it is p indulgent; that said, its absolutely the qt movie i've enjoyed the most since the kill bills

The ending was an almost out of body experience for me and my family,

flappy family

☺️

hey uppmiss, I was talkin bout culture only, like pushing the Beatles in yer face nonstop awww boohoo

I liked that Sharon Tate is depicted as a slapstick comedienne rather than a tragic, sacrificial love goddess. But the total film is an extensive and expansive wankfest for Tarantino.

Thought this was personal, idiosyncratic, rich, beautifully designed, and utterly pointless / mildly insulting

So basically on recent par

it's true that as 70s kids we grew up with the cynicism of everything having a "dark underbelly"

See also: growing up any time during the entire 20th century. The 70's don't have no special claims.

(xpost) If you delete mildly insulting, that's a perfect description of my reaction to Phantom Thread.

Phantom Thread had more laughs.

That old Manson magic. Public can't get enough of it.

damn u autocorrect

You look at this, though, and wonder how it affects the choices behind this Manson movie.

hey uppmiss, I was talkin bout culture only, like pushing the Beatles in yer face nonstop awww boohoo

― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Sunday, July 28, 2019 7:06 PM (four hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

The Beatles were a pretty cool band with some good tunes no need to be sad amigo 🙂

I am beginning to entertain the idea that the fake ending that originally circulated would have at least been a full measure.

And yet Bad Times at the El Royals sank without a trace...

Bad Times at the El Royale With Cheese?

"But the total film is an extensive and expansive wankfest for Tarantino."

it sounds like he might be *cleaning up* in the foot fetish category of the porn oscars, the sad twat.

They deserved it and I had a blast watching those three scum fucks die!

This is like exactly what the most scolding, alarmist, finger-wagging 90s critics of his onscreen violence predicted he would do to his audience, congrats.

I thought kinkshaming was bad now?

that rule doesn't apply to people called Quentin who clearly like to mix a bit of wanking with work.

I honestly didn't notice the feet when I was watching the movie, I think a lot of you just think about Quentin Tarantino jacking off more than I do....and that's okay, no judgment

oh come off it... oops possibly bad choice of words there.

Pretty prominent foot shot in this one.

Xpost lol

Multiple foot shots! In multiple scenes!

And lots of shots of barefoot girls (all of them are barefoot) padding around.

QT: The Russ Meyer of Feet.

QT feet = fine, whatever
Dan Schneider feet = bad

*writes in notebook*

Josh how did those shots make you feel?

*tents fingers*

In all seriousness though
I was just watching the movie and I guess I dunno, it wasn't something I noticed, i hadn't even heard of the foot thing until this thread

Tbh I never noticed the foot stuff either until it started being a thing that ppl made fun of a lot, post Kill Bill I think?

There is a dinner in Buñuel's honour at George Cukor's house in Hollywood in 1972. Fifteen famous directors are there, including John Ford, Rouben Mamoulian, Robert Mulligan, George Stevens, Robert Wise, William Wyler, Billy Wilder. Hitchcock sits next to Buñuel, says very little, then at one point puts an arm round his companion's shoulder and says with deep admiration: "Buñuel, that wooden leg in Tristana. That wooden leg."