Seizing back control: The ILX lol brexit is how we're all gonna die thread.

And I hate hate this position.

What’s so excruciating about the current Labour Brexit palaver is the party will inevitably back a People’s-Vote-with-Remain position, either at Conference, or in the manifesto process of an election. It just risks getting none of the political benefits when it does.

— Owen Jones🌹 (@OwenJones84) July 4, 2019

A lot of the younger left people I know, who were very vocally anti-RW press, pro-Labour and pro-Corbyn a couple of years ago are increasingly frustrated and exasperated over the Brexit position. Probably not to the extent of voting for someone else but perhaps to the extent that they won't go out and enthusiastically campaign for them in the event of a GE.

Owen Jones is a spinning weathervane though, I'm sure he was making the opposite point a few months ago.

I'd argue that Labour isn't using the vacuum created by the Tory and LibDem leadership conferences especially well, they could be taking advantage of the relative lull to release some non-Brexit related policy assignments in the way they did so well last autumn, when they actually had control over the agenda. Maybe the eyes of the media are entirely on Johnson and Hunt and no one would pay any attention, I dunno, but it would be better than nothing.

the current position didn’t demotivate the activists to go out and campaign in sunderland where by all accounts they swarmed to help. that’s because they know that there are more important first and second order issues at play when electing MPs

Things you may have missed this week ... 1/n
Jeremy Corbyn warned continuing with the austerity in schools would lead to greater inequality and “more and more underachievement”, especially for those from the poorest backgrounds or with special needshttps://t.co/fBRm5Lchjq

— Andrew Fisher (@FisherAndrew79) June 29, 2019

they are announcing things - it’s just impossible for them to win the day with the current press

it was the same during the locals and the euros - they were announcing policy after policy which were given very little airtime

Owen's concern trolling and inability to control himself, to analyse and take stock of a situation is something that is really frustrating, especially because those younger members look up to him. Certainly I'd tie it in to the demoralising effect it could be having on the membership. You'd just never trust him when it gets rough, as it will in the next few months.

xp = it's a weird lull at the moment. And summer starting too so I don't know how much attention would be paid to anything.

Jones doesn't really seem to know whether he is coming or going. Weathervane is the right description, he's just not very good

sudden flashback to when he interviewed that guy from. Weatherspoons: The Musical, and somehow came off worse

He was quite hostile to Corbynism at its weakest point in the early days. Good job he's an irrelevant annoying twerp without any influence worth shit, cos he does seem to change with whatever direction the hot air is blowing.

the only positive thing I can say about him is that he isn't Paul Mason.

I can say that he’s a target of the far right and his colleagues are OBSESSED with him. He’s annoying alright but far from the worst & he actually gets out there and campaigns fairly tirelessly given his other work commitments.

I'm not meaning to be too critical its just he's not very good (in ways that seem improvable)

Jess Phillips, Streeting .. getting targeted by the far right is no guarantee your politics don't suck absolute shit.

There's a pretty strong argument that it's a bad look to join in a pile-on that also contains some of the worst people in the country, in any case no one needs to say any more about Jess Phillips or Wes Streeting that isn't already being said.

well there is a distinct difference saying you think someone is a bit useless and a dickhead, or they are part of the problem rather than a solution on a message-board to actually threatening them online or even in person. "Piling on" is a bit strong in this context imo.

I've got issues with Labour politicians that engaged with all sorts hate speak under Miliband and after, and getting targeted by the far right doesn't erase this legacy and mean they are one of the good ones.

i thought we meant piling on in the sense of Jones piling on the "Corbyn Must Do Remain Now" shtick

oh right. I better stop posting now, because I'm heading towards dodgy territory where I start speaking ill of... forget it!

oops sorry Matt!

Sometimes I think my hatred of Labour melts is a similar thing to these fucking idiots who stick up for CW. I'm sort of just as blinkered in my own way at times, but it is a strong hatred - need to calm down sometimes!

Yes for the record I obviously don't think ILX posts constitute joining in a pile-on as no one actually reads this board other than noted lurker John McTernan who as far as I know isn't a far-right hate figure.

Guys we need to calm down and keep posting as we normally do. Wasn’t accusing anyone, especially not my secret fave, of piling on OJ - just think he gets a lot of shit from people for spurious reasons as well as the normal ones.

And Matt, you’d think a regular to this thread such as yourself would remember me self-outing as MR Seu*mas M1lne a while back?

And actually a better reason for me to defend OJ is that he does call out racism in the media and class in the media and takes a huge amount of shit for it.

Speaking of racism:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jul/04/ann-widdecombe-likens-brexit-to-emancipation-of-slaves

Deeply glad Strictly rehabilitated this ghoul in the public eye.

has anyone in the UK press cottoned on to the fact that the top brass in the SNP are now in open warfare about the gender recognition act ?

― ||||||||, Thursday, July 4, 2019 5:14 AM (four hours ago)

has been covered a bit in the telegraph, spectator had a piece about the heroism of joan mcalpine's brave transphobia in the face of the "scottish political establishment", saw something about it in the new statesmen etc. i just think any sort of scottish political drama that isn't about the union or doesn't cause the snp a huge electoral backlash is hardly going to set the heather alight in the rUK press

(xp) The woman who was anti-Semitic about the leader of her own party. What a character.

xp. obviously if you're a centrist fucking snp politico and you're a transphobe you should go fuck yourself off the scott monument post haste

The problem with this issue is most of the press is like, “lol, fuck the Nats” and also “lol, fuck trans people”, so there’s no side for them to take.

yeah i think you've hit the nail on the head.

sadly the division in the SNP leadership reflects the division in opinion in scottish society.

Just read an article in a prestigious Romanian journal that caters to the (right-wing, by default) intellectual caste about how 'sexo-Marxism' is slowly but surely overtaking Europe and how we must do everything within our power to resist its tyrannical ascension. Do you not see that the situation in Scotland is but a microscopic piece of a greater civilisational puzzle? We must stop sexo-Marxism!

striking chink in their usually steadfast message discipline but

gyac OTM re OJ - probably the only person to (or at least try to) call out O'Neil on his own show re Spectator cvntery so still gets some points

Just read an article in a prestigious Romanian journal that caters to the (right-wing, by default) intellectual caste about how 'sexo-Marxism' is slowly but surely overtaking Europe and how we must do everything within our power to resist its tyrannical ascension. Do you not see that the situation in Scotland is but a microscopic piece of a greater civilisational puzzle? We must stop sexo-Marxism!

― pomenitul, Thursday, July 4, 2019 10:26 AM (one minute ago)

there was an albertan tory who was railing against the NDP's "sex marxism" recently. great minds think alike

might try and create an ndp sex marxist caucus

Straight out of Jordan Peterson's rhetorical toolbox.

I'd be down for that! As soon as I move back to Montreal.

xp

I've never quite been able to work out why, in the midst of raging transphobia from the supposed liberal-left media in this country, the Conservative Party seems so broadly unfussed about trans rights? Most of their MPs didn't bother to vote against it and almost as many voted in favour of it as voted against.

some of them probably more venal than outright evil

I mean, this only holds if you consider the Times a liberal/left paper and the Times has led on that agenda more than any other part of the media. I mean, what else do they pay Janice Turner for?

Sadly, Janice Turner will be in post and be given carte blanche to write any old shite as long as her husband is Executive Editor (he is Peter Preston’s son)

the guardian had an editorial concern trolling for transphobia and saying neither side is wrong in the debate between trans people and terfs over the gender recognition act,lest we forget

Not denying that about the Guardian (or the NS) but the Times is the paper of record and it’s running scare stories about trans people on the front page.

I don’t think this was posted? Love love love Pidcock.

"Are you bored, Nick?" The BBC's Nick Robinson @bbcnickrobinson has his arse handed to him on a plate - by @LauraPidcockMP. 👏👏👏 #r4today pic.twitter.com/PDmMSTfIOg

— Labour Grassroots (@LabGrassroots) July 3, 2019

yeah posted something about that at the time. she's really excellent. "arse handed on a plate" is probably a bit strong - but she didn't brook no bullshit distraction speak from him and reminded him why she was there.

nice that MI5 got tom harwood the call up to QT as a treat for his aman smear

God, I know. Horrible ghoul.

At least we still have Jonny L.

It’s time to legalise cannabis. Supporters in UK outnumber opponents 3:2, in London 3:1. Stop criminalising young people! Disclosure: I was arrested for possession at 19 but now I prefer to self-medicate with alcohol in moderation (usually) & hate skunk https://t.co/WlJ4jK8SIK

— Jon Lansman (@jonlansman) July 1, 2019

more of a mellow sativa man i suppose

Wish I was still on Twitter so I could "there are different strains bro"