Ari Aster's MIDSOMMAR (2019)

Yeah this is a movie with a very slow burn, one or two incredibly grotesque scenes, and the aftermath of same.

my main point of curiosity is what this guy can do without the WMD that was Toni Collette. Don't think I can handle a Hereditary rewatch just yet but I'm unsure how much of what I loved about that movie was her or the direction.

This movie is unthinkable (and unendurable) with the casting of Florence Pugh.

without, you mean?

haven't seen her in anything so don't have any expectations.

tired: midsommar

wired: midsummer murders

yeah, without

haven't seen her in anything so don't have any expectations.

See Lady Macbeth at first opportunity.

yep

oh shit, i had forgotten about that and yes she is amazing in it. that's reassuring.

the emphasis on casting and performance as being discrete and separable from directing is....weird to me

Alfred's got his review up -- there are spoilers so only read if you've seen it or if you know you're not going to, but I think it's a very sharp read on the film, including problems that I didn't address properly (but which DJP rightly noted upthread):

https://humanizingthevacuum.wordpress.com/2019/07/03/midsommar-wants-to-be-more-than-a-horror-film/

when you’re at an elite festival but IG is down pic.twitter.com/UGzBCtGTCG

— Eric Allen Hatch (@ericallenhatch) July 3, 2019

I literally just got out of this film and one of my first thoughts was “I bet Eric Hatch is on this”

Alfred's got his review up -- there are spoilers so only read if you've seen it or if you know you're not going to, but I think it's a very sharp read on the film, including problems that I didn't address properly (but which DJP rightly noted upthread):

I finished the thread, just read DJP's remark -- yep. The racial politics are....fucked up.

The racial politics are....fucked up.

I'm not gonna get around to this movie till it's on Amazon Prime, so if answering my questions would require too much spoilage feel free to ignore me, but...is there much made of the black guy being "a black guy," or is he just seen by the villagers/cultists as "not from here" just like the other protagonists? In other words, is his role in the film to be "the black guy" or is he a real character? And if it's the latter, why is it necessary or even good for a film set in a weird European village to hew to contemporary US racial politics?

You know what, never mind.

The summary on Wikipedia doesn’t even mention which character is black.

why is it necessary or even good for a film set in a weird European village to hew to contemporary US racial politics?

I mean, the writer-director is American (along with, we can assume, the bulk of the financing) and the festival is made up, so it hardly seems out of bounds

It's also a well-known horror trope that black people in those movies largely exist to be brutally murdered in front of or in the vicinity of the Final Girl

I'm not gonna get around to this movie till it's on Amazon Prime, so if answering my questions would require too much spoilage feel free to ignore me, but...is there much made of the black guy being "a black guy," or is he just seen by the villagers/cultists as "not from here" just like the other protagonists?

SPOILER

All these things, and he's the most committed to research, the smartest, yet he must collaborate with the boyfriend-asshole.

Lots of insane stuff in this movie but IMHO the most audacious move was to visually reference the Wicker Man remake during the climax. That is some next level cinematic trolling.

Good new Haxan Cloak interview re the score:

https://thequietus.com/articles/26744-the-haxan-cloak-midsommar-ari-aster-bobby-krlic-interview

Also worth noting — when I mentioned to my partner how I thought all the constant background activity was one of the film’s best points, she immediately said it made her think of Drowning By Numbers. Lo and behold, Krlic brings up that both he and Aster bonded over a mutual Peter Greenaway love among other things.

Seeing this tonight, but another thing I find interesting about this guy's movies is that no one can seem to agree about their degree of intentionality. I saw someone on twitter argue, for instance, that the ending of this one was "funny" and "wasn't supposed to be." Meanwhile in an AVClub interview Aster says he thinks of the movie as a dark comedy and specifically cited the ending!

I’m a bit bemused at the idea of seeing this film and thinking the humour was unintentional

Ari Aster is incredible at inserting bleak humor into his films. The reveal at the start of his short The Strange Thing About the Johnsons is simultaneously the darkest and funniest sight gag I think I've ever seen.

I enjoyed this.

Spoilery question - after the boyfriend was supposedly taken to the airport, did anybody else hear a woman screaming in the scene a few minutes later?

Yeah that was clearly Connie.

Figured. Thought that was a great touch. It was unsettling.

Loooooooved this for so many reasons. Haven’t read the thread yet. Some things I liked including but not limited to :
— casting no famous ppl, yes
— Dani was perfect, the intro scenes set up her emotional state perfectly, her face!!
— in spite of some of the gruesome scenes (the cliff!!), nothing about this movie rung gross to me
— I’ve never seen a cis het male character so obviously uncomfortable in a sex scene and I appreciated that, nice change of pace

SPOILERS!

Dug this a lot, though it's definitely too long. It could have painlessly lost 20-30 minutes. I'm a big fan of the way Aster juxtaposes fussy imagery with lowbrow humor. (I did wonder how many of Poulter's lines were ADR'd in after the fact.) Pugh was of course great but I really loved Reynor in this, so convincingly loathsome in a way we all recognize, yet also touchingly pathetic throughout the final act. (It helped that I related deeply to his physical discomfort while surrounded by revelry, having recently enjoyed a nervous breakdown whilst on vacation.)

I don't really understand Alfred's objection here:

Coming after a battle with Christian about who will take credit over their shared thesis about village customs, it’s hard to know who’s exploiting whom when it’s easier to see which minority gets punished for being smart; Aster stages the scene as if Josh is getting his comeuppance.

I mean, he *is*, for blatantly disrespecting an explicit rule pretty gravely given to him a couple of scenes earlier. It's in character, too, since it makes sense that he would be driven to do a distinctly better job than Reynor's character and will take any advantage he can get. He's not punished for "being smart." I get that it plays differently given the tropes associated w/ black guys in horror movies but I don't think it's fair to say that it's staged with glee or lingering violence compared to, say, the extended daytime hillside-mallet deaths. (Also, if DJP is looking for a precise answer to his earlier question: WJH bites it in roughly the order of his billing, and the final girl isn't really involved in any fashion.)

If there's an obvious political objection to this movie, I would think it would be the use of the disfigured inbred character, which is some straight-out-of-the-70s (or earlier) shit. Though Reynor and Harper's cultural relativism/detached academic interest in the proceedings was fairly timeless.

Also, Krlic's score was cool, and way out of his Haxan Cloak wheelhouse, but I can't imagine listening to it in isolation like I sometimes do with Stetson's score for Hereditary.

I’ve never seen a cis het male character so obviously uncomfortable in a sex scene and I appreciated that, nice change of pace

this was very deliberate it seems

https://www.thewrap.com/midsommar-jack-reynor-full-frontal-nudity-ari-aster/

"If there's an obvious political objection to this movie, I would think it would be the use of the disfigured inbred character, which is some straight-out-of-the-70s (or earlier) shit."

It's weirdly never used though... except for a couple of shots and then the incest "joke".

I really liked this and it was only in the last twenty or so minutes that I was like wait how fucking long is this movie??!?! it really breezes along nicely until then. I am going to make a lot of jokes about my Swedish friends from now on too.

I knew it was long going in and I didn’t feel any drag at all even tho my screening finished up around midnight

I did wonder how many of Poulter's lines were ADR'd in after the fact.)

A lot of the dialogue had the feel of obvious adr, disembodied and too-prominent whether it’s a background character or protagonist, which is a part of the sound design Ned was talking about

I wonder if when they cast William Jackson Harper, there was any thought as to maybe poking fun at the extreme whiteness of the cult and how clearly they only go for *certain types* of outsiders for "breeding purposes." Seems like a missed opportunity for a few extra lols

For once a reason to share a Bustle link:

https://www.bustle.com/p/the-breathing-in-midsommar-serves-a-much-larger-purpose-than-just-creeping-you-out-18136430

I am so into Krlic's score for this, can't wait to see the actual film

tbh I just want to know how long it takes them to kill the black guy

― brigadier pudding (DJP), Wednesday, July 3, 2019 9:08 AM (four days ago) bookmarkflaglink

Point acknowledged. On the other hand, how about Dani and horror's "last girl" tradition?

At any rate, I would compare it to Get Out--this beautiful and elite community is in a way recruiting you, but it is very much on *their* terms. And I liked the retort to the American stereotype of the Scandinavian countries as free love with blond bombshells (of both genders).

Surprisingly didn't mind or notice the length, kept me hooked til the end, at the same time I'm also just like WHY the fuck would you ever go to a place like this or accept an invitation...

Great follow-up to Hereditary in that it was very much its own thing, didn't feel at all rushed (like Us), and the question of whether or not it's better than Hereditary never occurred to me, they're both very good. no sophomore slump at all.

I can see the black comedy angle. I gotta read more interviews with this guy.

many xps but what was the Wicker Man remake reference? the bear?

Aster is clearly a major director - I hope he does something other than horror next, just to switch it up.

I found Jack Reynor weirdly cute.

he looked like bootleg Chris Pine to me. like a Chris Pine marionette. he has very big eyes

Chris Pine + Seth Rogen

^ great elevator pitch for a remake of The Fly

Aster is clearly a major director - I hope he does something other than horror next, just to switch it up.

― flappy bird, Sunday, July 7, 2019 1:46 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

he doesn't seem to like horror very much so probably

For someone who hates horror he sure loves staging horror setpieces and paying homage to classic horror movies

Yeah, what? Read an interview with him recently where he said he spent his youth renting and watching just about every horror movie he could get his hands on.

hereditary’s only a horror movie bc that’s how he could secure the funding, should i have said “he doesn’t seem to actually want to make horror”? is there a particular reason everyone’s jumping down my throat to defend the eli roth of elevated horror cinema

i’m seeing this thursday btw

sorry y'all, i really hate ari aster but i'm gonna try to like this comedy anyway

"the eli roth of elevated horror cinema" is an excellent grade-A burn

finally watching the director’s cut

this movie is so fucking amazing

Someone should tell those girls they're walkin stupid

lmao

I feel like I wast a whole genre of this movie.

Midsummer
Og Wicker Man

Yesterday I randomly remembered the scene where the kids are watching a DVD of Austin Powers and started lmfao in a hotel lobby

Someone tell those girls they're walking stupid

lol i just came here to post “somebody should tell these girls they’re walking stupid”

So I guess the streaming version retains the brief mention of Austin Powers by one of the adult villagers, but omits the payoff several scenes later where we actually do see the kids watching it :'(

I watched it with my gf, a horror movie non-enjoyer who had avoided it since it came out but knew a lot of the memes. She liked it, but disagreed with all of my takes (Christian is the worst imaginable boyfriend; Dani finds real connection and heals from her trauma; the sex scene is good and cool [tbh I didn't expect her to be on-board with this one but my first time sucked])

imo he sucks not because he's a bad boyfriend, but because he's an aggressively mediocre person who shouldn't even be her boyfriend by the time they leave for the trip. you can chalk part of it up to youth or inexperience, but continuing to be an aggressively terrible boyfriend is not being a better person than breaking up with your girlfriend who just went through the worst trauma of her life!

also he sucks in about four other ways

i mean my memory could be motheaten but i do not remember a scene in this movie where the kids are actually watching austin powers, just the line of dialogue about it

xp "Aggressively mediocre" is kind of an overused cliche, but I agree with its use here, because Christian's overriding motivation is to "not be a bad guy." It's the fear of getting blamed for stuff that animates him at the only points in the movie where he really seems actively engaged (Telling his bros that he invited Dani, "but she's not actually gonna come," and also he lied and told her the invitation was coming from them, so go along with it; telling the village elders that they are so sorry, but they have no idea where the sacred text disappeared to or where their missing friends are, and how he would hate to be associated with something Josh did)

I didn't think Christian was meant to be viewed as "a bad boyfriend" or "a bad person", but rather as a very generic dude who was completely incapable of dealing with a traumatised girlfriend.

The most moving scene in the film, to me, was the moment when the Swedes start screaming along with Dani's screams, sharing her pain. Exactly what a traumatised person needs! Share my fucking pain with me!

Also it's been mentioned elsewhere, but not here, and I think it's super-cool: the actor playing the ättestupa guy is Björn Andrésen, who played Tadzio in "Death And Venice", and was a secondary character in Roy Andersson's "En Kärlekshistoria". Cool bit of casting

The idea that the cult is pushing cinema's quintessential Ganymede off a cliff because he's gotten old is pretty delicious imo!

The most moving scene in the film, to me, was the moment when the Swedes start screaming along with Dani's screams, sharing her pain. Exactly what a traumatised person needs! Share my fucking pain with me!

that scene is certainly the most intense & moving scene, but to me there's a grotesquerie to it bc its clearly gaslighting. the reason she's in pain is because they, the people screaming with her, brutally tortured and murdered everyone else - they are definitely NOT sharing her pain except in the most superficial & manipulative way, trying to get her to accept her role in their cosmology - a role that they've forced her into because, again, they took away all her other options by brutally torturing and murdering everyone and made it clear that she cannot refuse and leave alive. shes presented with a false of a choice, theres always the specter of violence hovering.

i never understood people who dont feel like shes not still in acute danger at the ending. imho the gleeful horror-movie logic exhibited by the cult throughout the movie makes it seem perfectly likely that the next day or the day after next she could wake up and they'd be like "we worship and honor our May Queen who shall look down on us from the heavenly firmament, so we're going to cut your head off and put it up on this tall pole wheeee!!!!!" and i think she knows it at the end too.

Good posts itt. My gf said that once they got to the village she never stopped thinking "If I were in Dani's place how would I escape?" and I can understand viewing it that way (One Eye Open, it sounds like you had a similar perspective) but that could not be more different from my own experience. I was immediately plugged into the film on an affective level, and the vibes in the first half hour were so bad that "run away, go back to that" never entered my mind.

the reason she's in pain is because they, the people screaming with her, brutally tortured and murdered everyone else

it's been a while since i watched it, but i didn't read this scene that way at all. i thought she was letting out the pain rooted in the loss of her family that she had previously hid to avoid making others uncomfortable, e.g. in the airplane bathroom. i do think there was an underlying grotesquery in that the cult was being manipulative to connect with her, they had the one-sided knowledge given to them by the recruiter guy that she was deeply traumatized and alienated and therefore vulnerable to being recruited. and i never got the feeling they wanted to kill her, i thought they need to recruit people periodically to widen the gene pool

agree One Eye Open. we're not meant to follow the community's ideas to their horrific conclusions, but their beliefs on community-shared trauma and healing are interesting, and Pelle does accurately diagnose that Dani has truly not been able to heal because she has no real support system. her familial one is dead, her boyfriend is terrible at it.

it's just one of those things where, yes, the Hårga are bad, deluded, murderous people, and yet....have done more to help assuage Dani's pain than anybody in her life ever did. They also contributed heavily to her grief, but when a murderous cult understands empathy better than your own boyfriend, it should be a sign that maybe you're in the wrong relationship.

but yeah they probably killed her a week after for some not-previously-forseen super-sacrifice

it's been a while since i watched it, but i didn't read this scene that way at all. i thought she was letting out the pain rooted in the loss of her family that she had previously hid to avoid making others uncomfortable, e.g. in the airplane bathroom. i do think there was an underlying grotesquery in that the cult was being manipulative to connect with her, they had the one-sided knowledge given to them by the recruiter guy that she was deeply traumatized and alienated and therefore vulnerable to being recruited. and i never got the feeling they wanted to kill her, i thought they need to recruit people periodically to widen the gene pool

― karl...arlk...rlka...lkar..., Friday, June 14, 2024 2:35 PM bookmarkflaglink

well, a large part of her reaction is seeing her boyfriend being raped/having intercourse with a 15-year old girl, which is what happens immediately before her reaction. yeah, there is probably more she is reacting to than just that, given all she's been through, but they directly caused that upsetting visual image.

in years when they're not having this festival and not doing ritual sacrifices though, and there are no scheduled antestuppes, they probably do have healthy wailing sessions together!

ah yeah, i forgot that's what immediately preceded it. i still read her reaction as a culmination of her trauma and total lack of connection to what was supposed to be her support system though

Yeah I was gonna say, she is tripping balls & walked in on her boyfriend fucking a 15yo in front of an audience, kind of an important detail!

cap'n save-a-cult over here

i'd like to go on record in saying the cult is good and we are bad

was kinda hoping for an ending where Neal Howie washes ashore shortly after the sacrifice is completed/evidence discarded, to the Planet of the Apes realization of the audience that it was Summerisle all along

I like the idea of Ari Aster's Dune where everyone is resigned to their fates like, welp, guess I'm gonna be a sandworm now, as was foretold in the orange catholic bible spy who shagged me.

Some good posts in this revive, but I particularly want to highlight this:

the Hårga are bad, deluded, murderous people, and yet....have done more to help assuage Dani's pain than anybody in her life ever did.

I really think this is the crux of the matter. I haven't been traumatised in the same manner as Dani (and have been reasonably fortunate in my choice of partners) but as someone with all the issues I have in my life... a large part of me wanted what I was watching on screen. That isn't a "the cult is good, actually" reading, but a recognition that when you are trapped and unsupported, you can willingly walk towards another danger if it seems to provide you with what you have been missing. The joy of burning your past mistakes and feeling visceral empathy within a community, those things are valid to look at and desire. It's still just another trap, it's still bad, but it's so tempting to give yourself over to it.

Just, like, don't let me ACTUALLY join a cult, please?

I like the idea of Ari Aster's Dune where everyone is resigned to their fates like, welp, guess I'm gonna be a sandworm now, as was foretold in the orange catholic bible spy who shagged me.

― Philip Nunez, Friday, 14 June 2024 bookmarkflaglink

He'd give Dune an interesting look based on this film.

I agree with you emil.y. I’ve long held that the most horrifying scene in the film, the one that is actually shot to terrorize the viewer, is the opening scene, the source of Dani’s trauma. I think this was intentional, not to make The Cult Look Good but to create a greater understanding as to why Dani would be drawn to them, despite their murder vibes