Is this anti-semitism?

^Haha Ross Perot moment. "You people -- wait, shit..."

Late arrival here, just found this thread after reading the commentary on Corbyn's alleged anti-semitism in the AOC thread. Overall this kind of discussion is where ILE shines, imo. It's mostly moderate, nuanced and is not one-sided, ill-advised attempts at gatekeeping aside.

I'd say this recording is worth noting as a new low in US conservatives' efforts to exploit the antisemitism issue:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/pompeo-pledges-not-to-wait-for-britains-elections-to-push-back-against-corbyn-and-anti-semitism/2019/06/07/dfeaa180-9c27-4495-9322-3d16b7d1541a_story.html?

I wrote about racists using anti-Semitism as a shield and how flimsy and shitty it is https://t.co/oiRjlk6J3p

— Talia Lavin (@chick_in_kiev) July 17, 2019

good piece

Jews are not trees, not animals, not mute props to use as cudgels in a war of escalating rhetoric. We do not need to be spoken for, we who have been here since before this country was a country, and want to remain, and know no other home; we are not waiting for your apocalypse.

Liz Cheney and Meghan McCain have volunteered, unasked-for, as blonde Christian Loraxes

Damn, that was good.

Something I have been wondering: has anyone done any analysis, or is there any way to analyze, whether antisemitic comments on site by youtube are being bot-posted or posted using some kind of script? I just see this pattern of what seem like large numbers of different accounts making very similar comments on a wide variety of videos.

A decent article in the Morning Star today, but it doesn’t seem to be online yet.

https://newjerseyglobe.com/local/trenton-councilman-defends-mcbride-says-jew-down-is-just-a-statement-of-speech/

At one point, Muschal asked the Globe reporter to repeat his name.

“Is that a Jewish name?” he asked.

Told it was, he responded, “OK. There you go,” and continued the conversation.

indeed, i go

this is obviously a tempest-in-a-teapot scenario

at the same time ofc these idiots are anti-semites

I wasn't really asking. I just know this as the most used anti-semitism thread.

“It wasn’t nothing maliciously done,” Muschal said. “It was about money. That’s why they said Jew them down.”

clearly not anti-Semitic because people say it all the time

someone used this talking to me the other day but immediately if lamely apologized after nothing more than a wordless look. shoulda tried to brazen it out i guess.

was prob a "oh whoops didn't realize this was that kind of room and not the other kind of room" apology tho, sigh.

the guy who sold me my first car when i was a teenager promised not to jew me down but he was a redneck from 1991

maga, i guess

This must be an American thing.

American expressions of antisemitism are derived from European - there’s nothing new under the sun - and although the exact phrase might not exist among anglophones this side of the Atlantic, the sentiment itself does. And might be a case of simple transference wrt to the phrase itself - people will say “to gyp” someone without knowing or caring the origin of the term.

Very good, but it's American thing to use this phrase is what I was saying.

I don't hear "Jew" used as a verb in the UK but especially decades back as a schoolkid it would be commonly used as an antisemitic noun

I think use of 'jew' as a verb is relatively recent. never heard it in the UK except in the high-nonsense 'jew-arsed' to refer to when someone makes a joint a bit wet on their toke, which I might guess was originally dew-arsed

I've thankfully never heard anyone use the phrase 'Jew down', whether in Canada or the UK, although 'gyp' is still quite common in the former as far as I can tell. It's not always used with malicious intent, however, as most people appear to be blissfully unaware of its (possible? likely?) etymology.

Incidentally, I've never encountered 'to welsh' in the wild either.

Welsh/welch fairly common in the US. See also: Jerry-built.

xp I’ve heard “gyp” and its derivatives a lot, admittedly more in Ireland than here. Remember being surprised hearing it on the Simpsons once.

How quickly we forget the big stink when Michael Jackson used the phrase "Jew me, sue me" in "They Don't Care About Us" back in 1995. (Whole line was "Jew me, sue me, everybody do me/ Kick me, kike me, don't you black or white me.") I've never heard "Jew" as a verb in the real world, as far as I know, but I know people use it.

Welsh/welch, I only hear in, like, gangster movies. "Welch on a deal" or whatever.

People my company has done business with have used Jew as a verb with us on phone calls + stuff.

people were a bit more angry about the "kike me" line with MJ iirc; he claimed he had no idea it was offensive

I dunno, the Jew me, sue me bit was hardly overlooked.

He got cancelled for ages because of that line.

At any rate, most gentiles I know use ‘Jewish’ rather than ‘Jew’ to avoid sounding in any way pejorative.

Jew as a noun is not inherently antisemitic imo

I know that, but if you grow up in a town that’s 40 per cent Red Sea Pedestrians, you don’t want to sound like the schmucks from the next town over who *do* use it as a pejorative.

"I'm a Jew" basically only non-pejorative. "He's a Jew" probably okay but mildly uncomfortable especially since "He's Jewish" is sitting right there. "He's got a Jew nose," definitely antisemitic. "Don't Jew me," also definitely antisemitic."

basically:
noun = okay
adjective/verb = likely anti-semitic
adverb = you're doing it wrong
preposition = likely cleft palate

lol yes

I guess I'm mostly used to hearing the noun usage collectively amongst ourselves ("As Jews...", "a good Jew" etc.)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mLIS7qAWeaA

https://forward.com/opinion/433082/i-was-protested-at-bard-college-for-being-a-jew/

https://forward.com/opinion/letters/433122/letter-to-the-editor-i-organized-the-bard-conference-and-batya-ungar/

https://forward.com/opinion/letters/433145/i-was-misrepresented-in-column-about-protest-at-bard-college/

I'm gonna go with "Ungar-Sargon wasn't protested for being a Jew, her panel was protested because Ruth Wisse was on it and lots of people are mad at Ruth Wisse," while also conceding that the group protesting Ungar-Sargon's panel probably makes common cause with anti-Semites about the perfidy of Israel. Also feel like Ungar-Sargon's treatment of McKinney-Baldon was pretty unforgivable.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/train-abuse-jewish-family-antisemitism-london-tube-racist-a9214316.html

“As soon as I stopped filming I switched seats with the boy. The abuser got off at Waterloo, shouting that King James was in fact black.”

Crazy talk, everybody knows King James was a wee gay guy fae Edinburgh.

(The guy's been arrested btw).

apparently 93% of UK Jews are pretending Corbyn is antisemitic bc they're secret Tories
https://www.timesofisrael.com/polls-despite-mixed-opinions-on-brexit-93-of-uk-jews-wont-vote-for-labour/

better vote for more the most overtly racist PM and cabinet the UK has seen in decades then.

a guy whose response to orban being elected was 'good on you, huzzah'

they should admit that they aren't afraid of antisemitism they just like starving grannies

fwiw that poll was conducted by something called Survation on behalf of the Jewish Chronicle, which seems to be right-leaning. At the same time, you can only push a poll so much. I do kind of wonder why the dynamic seems to be so different with UK Jews vs US Jews, most of whom are blue-no-matter-who.

probably bc omar is just a junior congresswoman and not the leader of the party set up to be executive of the state if dems come back to power

fwiw #Jews4Labour has been trending today in response to the latest discreditation manoeuvre

lol yes merely a discreditation manoeuvre nothing to see here folks

probably bc omar is just a junior congresswoman and not the leader of the party set up to be executive of the state if dems come back to power

― Mordy, Tuesday, November 26, 2019 11:14 AM (three minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Even if Omar were speaker of the house, I don't think you'd see even a majority of US Jews refusing to vote dem, let alone 90+%. Maybe it's also the disjointed nature of our national/state/local politics and the fact that our parties don't really function like UK parties.

It is a discreditation manoeuvre. No new AS cases have been reported. It's the chief rabbi, at a spectacularly well-timed moment - a friend and known BoJo supporter - speaking out about AS within Labour. It's not based on anything new afaic.

xp