2020 Democratic presidential primary

Definitely no fun to get shouted down by rabid fans of a politician. A lot of Bernie supporters are feeling under attack in a big way too, it's worth saying. Feels like every dipshit centrist on the internet thinks I'm some kind of misogynist racist bernie bro russian bot because I support him. And then you've got the entire weight of the corporate media bearing down on anything with a whiff of anticapitalism to it. I don't think ILX really falls into these patterns, that's why I still read this thread.

News flash: Presidential politics consists of endless attacks, counter-attacks, and further attacks. Some of the attacks are very low-key and sneaky. Some are shrill and blatant. There are attack styles to meet every personality type and demographic group. If you feel under attack, it's just presidential politics as usual. Get used to it.

"BUT HOW ARE YOU GOING TO PAY FOR THAT"

ilx is all about disproportionate criticism. hadrian didn't you have issues about m obama making a divorced dad trope/Trump comparison? xpost

that wasn't disproportionate! that was legit shitty

haha!

I think it’s way too early for anyone to drop out. It would be cool if this went the same way as the GOP 2012 primary, with every candidate getting to be front runner for 15 minutes.

It has been interesting listening to commentators suggest what the non-center stage candidates must do at the debate to win support. I think the key to winning doesn’t count on differentiating yourself and highlighting your experience so much as it is getting the loudest applause and having the ‘it’-factor.

never in my posting history have I responded except proportionally and in a measured reasoned fashion SO BACK THE FUCK OFF!

^^ imagine if Hilz had responded like this in the debates.

My consistent and single criticism of Sanders since the 2016 campaign was that his message of economic revolution was cast as colorblind and the historical precedent for colorblind economic policies in this country is that they are in service of white people at the expense of non-white people and, when challenged on this, Bernie alternated between doubling down on colorblindness and calling out identity politics or conflating "person of color" with "poor". I don't think he has done nearly as much of that this go-round and, as a result, I am a lot more on board with him, but many of his supporters still beat that drum and it bugs the shit out of me.

(See also the segment of the Buttigieg fanbase that rabidly and vociferously insists that any intersectionality between his sexuality and is gender/race is immaterial and anyone saying that Mayor Pete has benefited from being a white man is erasing his homosexuality.)

I could see warren just about doing so

(Xp)

it's a consequence of the remnants of 20th cent Marxist thought which believed that destroying capitalism will result in marvels for everyone.

I'm so sick of marvels

Those are good points, DJP, and I think he has improved on those scores.

Funny how even in a march toward workers seizing the means of production the minorities are supposed to keep their grievances to themselves

those missteps of Bernie's really pissed me off. and his supporting an anti-choice Dem.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D-BwbJ-XkAYIWTC.jpg

getting a 'so not gonna happen' vibe from Michael Tracey here

Funny how even in a march toward workers seizing the means of production the minorities are supposed to keep their grievances to themselves

This was my takeaway from The Jungle when I read it in high school.

lots of white people in that photo

Yeah, I'm not sure what I'm supposed to take away from that photo. Which one is Michael Tracey? And who are the others? And does it matter?

Are those the Gravel teens

yes

the three girls are apparently staffers on Gabbard's campaign

So that would make Tracey the sweaty balding bearded dude in the background on the right?

the reason messages like that Sirota tweet get people's backs up should be obvious. It isn't purely anti-Bernie sentiment. The "only Bernie can do it" vibe gets a lot of people feeling very uncomfortable because there's this implication, that's been persistently fed by Sanders himself, that if he fails to lock up the nomination, he won't step aside for the front-runner/nominee and his supporters will not vote in November. That's a very real worry for anyone that wants to see high turnout and a Democrat win.

there is absolutely no reason to think he won't do exactly what he did last time: campaign for the democrat. ppl need to calm the fuck down

Especially if it’s warren.

they want him to bow down and worship the nominee, nuthin less xp

he'll be more than happy to split votes with Warren, so I assume that means he'll be out there campaigning for Biden

he's running for president

you don't say

otoh if Biden did end up the nominee I wouldn't begrudge anyone not campaigning for him

this is all so weird

like...there are primaries...it's part of the process

Not that he had a chance anyway, but Bill de Blasio quotes Che Guevara at Miami International Airport. He's done in Florida.

xxp

awesome, I'm really looking forward to Biden, Warren, and Sanders splitting the vote 40-35-25, and then having a bunch of people sit on their hands because Biden won.

blame the insurance lobby and their recruitment of Powerless Chairman Joe

I mean, is it really surprising that he's running? pretty sure it's more than the insurance lobby supporting him

the usual suspects

he's run for president a lot of times and was VP, but sure, maybe if he didn't run there wouldn't be some other centrist candidate from the dozens of hopefuls who would get the nod.

awesome, I'm really looking forward to Biden, Warren, and Sanders splitting the vote 40-35-25, and then having a bunch of people sit on their hands because Biden won

so do you just plan on getting mad every time there's ever a democratic primary process

That’s what Morbs does and it works for him.

moodles i'm really not sure where you're coming from with the idea that bernie will not step aside when someone else gets the nom. how exactly has sanders "persistently fed" this notion? isn't it in some way significant that in 2016 he did the exact opposite of what you're describing, by endorsing and campaigning for the dem nominee?

separately, when you talk about splitting the vote with warren it's like hang on... it's june. the iowa caucus is next february. are all progressives in every race obliged to decide, the better part of a year out, whether there's an acceptable other progressive in the race, and then whichever one seems closer to 50% gets to stay in and make their case and the others have to drop out? it seems weird to have that pressure, especially when there are 20 candidates in the race... idgi. primaries involve multiple candidates making their pitches.

so long as Democrats need a huge margin in the general election to have any significant gains, and there's a large portion of the electorate who will only show up to vote for their very special candidate, yes, I will be.

xxp

gonna need some evidence to back up that "large portion of the electorate" claim. iirc a whole lot larger a portion stays home no matter what, can't imagine why

xp

he clung on to the bitter end in 2016, well past the point where he had any reasonable path for winning. he's been coy about his willingness to step aside if this scenario happens.

I'm not suggesting he needs to do anything now, he's certainly a viable candidate (there's about a dozen+ candidates that could drop out now, though), but I can easily see a scenario where Sanders and Warren split the progressive vote. If Sanders is reasonably ahead, I don't have any reason to think Warren would pull a diva move like sticking around well past the point of viability (obviously this could happen too, and would be just as bad), but I can totally see Sanders pulling that move, and I don't think I'm alone in imagining that. I think there's a reason people are so sensitive to the comments that he and his campaign make, and I don't think it's irrational at all.

I would not use "diva" about a female candidate

There was an interview I read with one of the people running Bernie’s 2016 campaign who said that Bernie’s reasoning (which he disagreed with) was that dropping out and endorsing Hillary earlier would have been a huge letdown to his supporters and would have left them feeling tricked into believing in just another politician. and so to keep them invested in the general election and feeling like their work had made a difference he felt he needed to stick it out and get changes to the platform at the convention.

He stayed in like three weeks later than Hillary in '08, who was facing a similarly foregone conclusion.

a huge letdown to his supporters and would have left them feeling tricked into believing in just another politician.

into believing how primaries work?