2020 Democratic presidential primary

Gravel also failed to make the cut, fwiw.

Bernie should stay in as long as possible so that together he and Warren can set the policy standards and pull Biden or Harris or whichever centrist prevails in their direction.

Anyway I know we've done this a thousand times here but neither of them is going to pick the *other* New England progressive from the Senate. It doesn't add any votes to the ticket.

xp as a general act of clearing the way for a female candidate, so both? And as a statement that they would both be committing their full intellectual and financial resources to a workable ticket for change instead of bickering about who gets to hold the rudder. it's a better narrative than anyone else has forwarded at this point imo
i agree that it doesn't present a broader ticket but anyone voting in 2020 is voting for or against trump full stop.

I mean he doesn't need to be a running mate to do all those things. Whichever of them is behind the other after March 10th should drop out.

how about this for narrative... Warren wants to fix 21st-c capitalism, Sanders knows that's too 'incremental.'

They're not identical ideologically.

Yeah, Warren's ultimate long-term goal is to fix the parts of capitalism most likely to cause its collapse, so it can continue exploiting people at a more sustainable pace. The ultimate long-term goal of Bernie and his movement is to transcend capitalism entirely.

Warren's ultimate long-term goal is to fix the parts of capitalism most likely to cause its collapse, so it can continue exploiting people at a more sustainable pace

i'm pretty sure the second half of that is not her goal. but yes, she believes it can repaired.

Sounds like projection. AFICT, Bernie is a social democrat in much the way Swedish social democrats are. Capitalism is alive and well in Stockholm, but there a consensus that it exists to improve general welfare, not to create a hereditary plutocracy.

i think there is probably a reason that warren and sanders generally support each other's agendas

I tend to think that Sanders presents a social democratic agenda to the public because he sees that as the most feasible route to mitigate capitalism on the way to socialism. Whether or not that's the case, the DSA and other socialist orgs are 100% behind him, and their goal is absolutely to end capitalism. This matters because Bernie is currently running explicitly as part of that movement. He believes that his agenda can only be passed if he has a mass movement behind him, and his campaign's statements and actions have consistently reflected that.

NEWS - the Democratic debate groups

PURPLE: bernie, harris, biden, buttigieg, bennet, williamson, swalwell gillibrand, yang, hickenlooper

ORANGE: booker, warren, beto, klobuchar, delaney, tulsi, castro, ryan, de blasio, Inslee

NBC will now decide which night goes first

— Reid J. Epstein (@reidepstein) June 14, 2019

fuck that

how else should it be grouped? the likely candidates in one group and the ones failing upward in the other? or all 20 on one stage?

I don’t know if there was any good way to organize these debates given the number of useless dipshits involved but this looks terrible.

basically the orange group looks like the kids table with Warren dropped in

Nbc is giving bernie a chance to slaughter half the fiwld and warren the chance to clobber the other half. Then the real primaries can begin when the superfluous candidates are out of the way.

xpost in other words, biden is smiling

basically the orange group looks like the kids table with Warren dropped in

on the plus side, this should allow her to hog more of the attention

look fwd to Bern owning Biden, Harris and Empty Pete

I'm sure Warren can dominate those minor leaguers in her pool

many xposts:if sanders becomes pres, and let's say for this thought experiment he controls both houses and brings the dems to heel and can pass shit, id imagine the internal contradiction between his socialist rhetoric and his liberal policies may become an issue.

it is, in a way quite analogous with corbyn, whose manifesto for the GE was not partic socialist, interesting the way that their bonafides and history as dudes on the left gives them credibility in the eyes of people far to the left of their stated policies (obviously not all of them, there are plenty of leftists who are not interested in this incrementalism, both within dsa and within the orbit of say jacobin - jacobin's journal catalyst had an editorial wrangle that the ousted dr bob brenner blamed on his commitment to revolutionary politics vs sanders style doc dem stuff)

Yeah, I just feel like no one will pay attention to the orange debate.

Nobody is going to pay attention to either of them

We’re 9 months from Super Tuesday, this is a meat market for consultants and activists to pick teams

a lot of people are going to pay attention to both of them

Glad to see such cohesion and unity

If Warren can't dominate that stage she's in trouble

you would think, but it turns out that the Orange debate will be held on a dusty road by a pickup truck, and beto is packing his tight jeans

shirts vs skins

Inslee may not have a chance but he isn't a lightweight clown.

Americans forget the winner's campaign promises; lol Obama

This take is correct. For now.

To implicitly characterize Warren as seeing no greater crisis in American politics than “a few unenforced or misbegotten laws” is the most intelligence-insulting intelligence bullshit imaginable. Indeed, she has a much more comprehensive vision for addressing the crisis created by the anti-democratic elements of American politics than Bernie does.

Which of these candidates you prefer is a question of judgment, but the idea that using a magic word makes Bernie’s politics fundamentally different is just abject nonsense that can’t be supported by Bernie’s own agenda and description of his intentions.

I made the mistake with fighting with a Bernie guy yesterday in a private FB chat who could not accept that absorbing FDR's 1944 vision of America is not by any means socialism, no matter how many adjectives he places in front of it. And Warren beat him to it.

Yeah, co-determination is arguably more socialist than anything I have seen Sanders propose.

we all know American demo socialism is not "socialism"

Thankfully, neither one of us visits Reddit.

That grouping would be fine if Biden was in Warren's group so she can demolish him sooner and have him stop wasting peoples' time. As it is, she does feel relegated.

(Inslee will do great if he gets a chance to speak, as his goal is not to convince people that he should be president. He's got all the genial-patrician-white-guy and gladhanding-votegetter chops of Biden, without being a terrible dipshit with a skull full of fluffernutter, so should also be up against him to show Biden up further by better example. Harris and Bernie both getting to pwn Biden is promising for 20 minutes schadenfreude though.)

WATCH: @chrislhayes asks @BernieSanders, “Why does the word matter more than the agenda?” #inners pic.twitter.com/SYg9KnbWv4

— All In w/Chris Hayes (@allinwithchris) June 14, 2019

Am I being thick or did Sanders just flat-out not answer the question?

Correct!

he did not! xp

I think he's been mediocre at best this cycle. Thanks for the memories, Bernie.

the second season is often not as thrilling as the first

“Why does the word matter more than the agenda?”
"Powerful people need to hate you."
"Er, okay... So, you're saying you use the words 'Democratic Socialism' to put yourself in opposition to the powers in charge?"
"Economic rights are human rights."
"... I mean, yes they are, and you can say all of this regardless of what label you put on yourself, so why 'Democratic Socialism'?"
"Furthermore- [EXCERPT ENDS]"

Twitter: BERNIE 2020

The repeating-every-sentence-to-make-sure-we-get-it shtick is a fucking grind.

i enjoy the word socialism

i know we're not supposed to care about polls this early, but it's interesting that bernie's numbers have not recovered after biden's post-announcement bump even as numbers have kinda regressed.

meanwhile Warren keeps climbing

why are the colors purple and orange

big clemson fans probably

the california poll is quite shocking at this point. harris getting 4th in her own state. ever orourke is somehow still 2nd in texas