Not to mention presumably a front bench with a few ERG types on it.
― FernandoHierro, Thursday, 13 June 2019 17:24 (four years ago) link
But I think this points to what UK politicians have often done in various ways from "Rivers of Blood" speech onwards, to Ed Milliband's immigration mugs and the like. I agree Johnson will be more brazen about it, he will hold the highest office in the country too, but its very much part of a trend. When I said it was mostly going to be racist comments you seemed to suggest that he will do more to enable racist violence?
― xyzzzz__, Thursday, June 13, 2019 9:01 AM (one hour ago) Bookmark
to be fair to our tankie friend here this is not "comparing red ed to enoch"
― findom haddie (jim in vancouver), Thursday, 13 June 2019 17:27 (four years ago) link
Thank God ERG stalwarts like Steve Baker, Dominic Raab, David Davis and Liam Fox never held high office in the May regime.
― stress tweeting (gyac), Thursday, 13 June 2019 17:29 (four years ago) link
p worried he may turbo charge the erosion of our democratic norms started by may, modelling his premiership on trump. early talk of proroguing parliament not a particularly auspicious start
― ||||||||, Thursday, 13 June 2019 17:39 (four years ago) link
proroguing parliament is only good not bad when labour does it to noise up the lords
― ||||||||, Thursday, 13 June 2019 17:40 (four years ago) link
xpost maybe more of them this time and as the centre of his cabinet actively seeking hard Brexit. Dunno really what way he will have to go, guess it depends on how the leadership goes.
Agree about eroding norms further.
I am not sure why, and I say this out of genuine curiosity rather than as a rhetorical barb, why people seem determined to argue that nobody ever could be worse than May? If that's an inaccurate summation then I'm open to correction. I don't know where either you or Gyac are coming from Xyzzz, in all honesty.
It seems fairly likely to me that Boris can be everything May was and more.
I mean sure, you can point to a continuum, but it's not like each subsequent leader is inevitable based on the last.
― FernandoHierro, Thursday, 13 June 2019 17:49 (four years ago) link
i feel like i've set out at some careful length where aloh and gyac and me might be coming from, without anyone really making the slightest effort to engage with what i'm saying or even notice it
― mark s, Thursday, 13 June 2019 17:58 (four years ago) link
Look being perfectly calm and posting like you always do is a time-honoured tradition in these threads, either commit to that or stop leaving your pissy little asides in every comment you make, about some argument that only you are perceiving itt.
― stress tweeting (gyac), Thursday, 13 June 2019 17:59 (four years ago) link
xp I always notice and appreciate you even if not mutual! Esp your Rory content!
― stress tweeting (gyac), Thursday, 13 June 2019 18:00 (four years ago) link
https://www.picclickimg.com/d/l400/pict/223480079681_/Robert-Harrop-Stingray-Aquaphibian-Stf06-Mint-With-Box.jpg
― mark s, Thursday, 13 June 2019 18:03 (four years ago) link
Ah, the Afghanistan years.
― stress tweeting (gyac), Thursday, 13 June 2019 18:06 (four years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bt0HR9COX0I
― findom haddie (jim in vancouver), Thursday, 13 June 2019 18:11 (four years ago) link
Mark I felt you were relatively subtle - can you elucidate?
I wasn't even commenting on anything you said. I made the same argument several others did and in the end agreed to disagree with Xyzzz who didn't seem particularly fazed by what I said.
I have absolutely no grudge against you.
― FernandoHierro, Thursday, 13 June 2019 18:22 (four years ago) link
Like I did my best to try to say "I don't understand your argument" and clarify I'm not being dismissive by that. I dunno, why keep attacking at that point?
― FernandoHierro, Thursday, 13 June 2019 18:24 (four years ago) link
I mean, you do insist on posting stuff like this
why people seem determined to argue that nobody ever could be worse than May? If that's an inaccurate summation then I'm open to correction.
― stress tweeting (gyac), Thursday, 13 June 2019 18:28 (four years ago) link
the car's on fire, Antonescu is at the wheel ... Billy Bremner is doing the pissed up navigation to hell !
― calzino, Thursday, 13 June 2019 18:29 (four years ago) link
Does anyone really believe that Johnson will actively seek a hard Brexit? It's possible that he's stupid enough to try but he wants to be a Prime Minister for good times. He's more likely to axe what remains of the social security budget and use the money for a massive street party on an island no one can get to.
― Matt DC, Thursday, 13 June 2019 18:30 (four years ago) link
https://i.redd.it/pnf7ek60ajuy.jpg
― mark s, Thursday, 13 June 2019 18:33 (four years ago) link
The car’s on fyre
― shhh / let peaceful like things (wins), Thursday, 13 June 2019 18:35 (four years ago) link
xxphe's been pro-EU longer than a brexiter, and has nothing to gain from a national crisis - fight them on the beaches posturing won't cut it when people are dying without meds and everyone hates him + his wretched party.
― calzino, Thursday, 13 June 2019 18:35 (four years ago) link
Relatedly, the Tory party are so hard up for cash that they've said whoever gets through to the last two will have to stump up £150k each for hustings - possibly* causing the leadership to change without the bother of the members getting involved again.
*but not actually because this is still the Tory party and there can still be a whip-round to cover it fairly quickly.
― Andrew Farrell, Thursday, 13 June 2019 18:39 (four years ago) link
I reckon he'll end up making even more concessions than May and the ERG will be burning effigies of him and calling him an adulterous lying cokefiend and sex pest.
― John Harris is a Guardian columnist (Tom D.), Thursday, 13 June 2019 18:40 (four years ago) link
I saw that and nodded approvingly. Flawless grift to top up the coffers!
― stress tweeting (gyac), Thursday, 13 June 2019 18:41 (four years ago) link
the extent to which Johnson pursues hard Brexit and the extent to which he'll push rightwards are the big unknowables at this point. it might be that the Bannon/Farage axis are just drinking chums as disposable as any other if they inconvenience his personal ambitions, but maybe his personal ambitions aren't really focused on being the first legerndary Prime Minister and he's running as a front man for that axis with all the financial and political obligations that entails
― Oy McVey (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 13 June 2019 18:42 (four years ago) link
xp I agree actually. He doesn’t have any solid beliefs and he doesn’t do well in difficult situations because he lacks the same stubbornness to push through. Plus no work ethic. It’d be funny if every successive leader wasn’t dragging us closer to the abyss.
― stress tweeting (gyac), Thursday, 13 June 2019 18:43 (four years ago) link
Look what happened the last time we had a workshy Old Etonian slob running to fat as PM.
― John Harris is a Guardian columnist (Tom D.), Thursday, 13 June 2019 18:45 (four years ago) link
he's over i tell you
― mark s, Thursday, 13 June 2019 18:45 (four years ago) link
It’s #WhipsToryLeadersSweepstake and on his Birthday 🎁 the Chief Whip gets Boris Johnson pic.twitter.com/LVjzJBs0ud— Labour Whips (@labourwhips) June 13, 2019
― stress tweeting (gyac), Thursday, 13 June 2019 18:46 (four years ago) link
I thought he was rolling a joint there.
― John Harris is a Guardian columnist (Tom D.), Thursday, 13 June 2019 18:47 (four years ago) link
uncancel mlc
― mark s, Thursday, 13 June 2019 18:49 (four years ago) link
the first reply there on twitter is the essence of alt-centrism. just look at that fucking profile
― findom haddie (jim in vancouver), Thursday, 13 June 2019 18:50 (four years ago) link
"neoliberal Zionist terf’n’swerf Blairite libtard Britnat yoon red Tory cis-gay centrist remoaner scum. all tweets are pre-approved by my Zionist slave masters"
Johnson didn't actually need the support of Bannon or anyone else in that circle to work his way into the situation he's currently in though. I'm not ruling it out, but given its already been established that he will fuck over pretty much anyone to get what he wants it stands to reason he'd do that to the ERG as well.
― Matt DC, Thursday, 13 June 2019 19:34 (four years ago) link
he fucked up one leadership challenge, he now has to stand at the most unpropitious moment in the party's history, his personal life is presumably expensively complex, who can be sure what deals he's prepared to engage in to ensure he gets to the top this time round? (leaving aside likely political affinities with other racists)
― Oy McVey (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 13 June 2019 19:43 (four years ago) link
what we know about his campaign has a very different vibe than the clubby amateurism of his last effort
― Oy McVey (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 13 June 2019 19:44 (four years ago) link
He was extolling trickle down economics in his launch speech like the past ten years had never happened. This will totally work.
― nashwan, Thursday, 13 June 2019 19:46 (four years ago) link
Hiding him away is a good idea for starters, but it is a strategy with limitations. He could be just one tactless blunder away from fucking it all up, then they'll become amateurs! Or no one will care and applaud him, then they are clever operators again.
― calzino, Thursday, 13 June 2019 19:50 (four years ago) link
it's unknowable at this stage but he's got very dodgy allies who've already thrown god knows how much money at achieving the Brexit they want and his fecklessness is not proof against an attempt to force the hardest of Brexits now. I find him less convincing as an erstwhile one nation Tory who just wants to be PM than most of the other possibilities
― Oy McVey (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 13 June 2019 19:56 (four years ago) link
"I find him less convincing as an erstwhile one nation Tory"
his sister probably does as well.
― calzino, Thursday, 13 June 2019 20:30 (four years ago) link
ok if gove wins the uk politics thread has to be called "one nation under a gove"
― findom haddie (jim in vancouver), Thursday, 13 June 2019 20:31 (four years ago) link
He isn't convincing as someone who believes in anything other than himself and his career tbf.
― John Harris is a Guardian columnist (Tom D.), Thursday, 13 June 2019 20:31 (four years ago) link
not that I'd put any actual "one nation tories" above boris tbh, cos they are all trash.
― calzino, Thursday, 13 June 2019 20:33 (four years ago) link
but you have to distinguish between between different levels of evil tory trash on this thread or a clusterfuck is on the way.
― calzino, Thursday, 13 June 2019 20:35 (four years ago) link
rather than quoting whatever argument isn’t gelling with you? Do you not see why putting that argument on people who never even alluded to this could be insulting?
I literally said that's my summation and I could be wrong. I wasn't being sarcastic saying that, I genuinely was not sure the precise angle at work. I genuinely meant please tell me if that's not what you're saying. Because I wasn't sure and I don't even know if you and xyzzz think the same thing, how could I?
There's no master troll plan or something. You target my posts on this thread repeatedly and try to force a personal argument, over and over again, to the point that I can barely post here even when what I'm saying is relatively similar to what other people say. You're also the angriest person in this thread.
Most of the time I come to this thread without major convictions beyond the broader ones most of us share here, but tend to question things to find my way to something more close to that. Not everybody is certain of things.
Yeah I get exasperated or make a joke but no more than anyone else here.
The discussion with xyzzz seemed to go on and and end relatively amicably. I'm sick of getting flamed or treated like a troll just for posting fairly occasionally or having a debate. It's totally unfair and on this occasion my posts were not even responding to a single thing you had said, you just appeared to attack me.
I've tried several times to draw a line under this but it obviously won't go anywhere, the bit you picked out of my post above was me being me as careful as I can to show I wasn't sure where the argument had gone and maybe I'd got it wrong and if so let me know, and somehow that's me attacking someone.
I fucking hate this, having to get embroiled in someone attacking me personally and not the things I said. It's totally unfair.
― FernandoHierro, Thursday, 13 June 2019 20:35 (four years ago) link
The thing is all these ERGers are going on and on about his tenure as London Mayor when he was far more pro-immigration than official Tory policy at the time and was touting amnesties for illegal immigrants. They're so fucking dumb they don't realize he got elected by being as unTorylike as he could get away with but mostly by keeping out of people's hair by sitting on his fat arse doing nothing all day - much as Sadiq Khan is doing now.
― John Harris is a Guardian columnist (Tom D.), Thursday, 13 June 2019 20:39 (four years ago) link
he beat Ken Livingstone, that takes something special does that.
― calzino, Thursday, 13 June 2019 20:51 (four years ago) link
xp excuse you, Sadiq is a far right hate figure and he hasn’t spunked a load of money on a bus that cooks old people
― stress tweeting (gyac), Thursday, 13 June 2019 21:05 (four years ago) link
ive often pondered the theory, call it the dennis wise proposition, that you could take out the likeliest to draw opprobrium in incremental steps from the ukpol threads and the net average level of rancour between participants would remain constant throughout the process
can we nominate the two least likely for an experiment in which they have their own ukpol thread and give it a week before they are fee-huriously hissing at each other in place of discussion
that would be good imo
― godfellaz (darraghmac), Thursday, 13 June 2019 15:34 (five hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
hard border iykwim
― imago, Thursday, 13 June 2019 21:07 (four years ago) link
khan's still a slimy slick prick though. I still don't like him for using the word "power" about 89 times in a speech to try and undermine Corbyn, when he was looking weak, and these cunts were plotting to take control of the PLP again.
― calzino, Thursday, 13 June 2019 21:11 (four years ago) link
Chuk has joined the Lib Dems
― FernandoHierro, Thursday, 13 June 2019 21:16 (four years ago) link