Seizing back control: The ILX lol brexit is how we're all gonna die thread.

Or, you can realise that the milieu you’ll be living/working in is substantially more welcoming/multicultural/urbane than what’s broadly considered ‘average’.

The Paul Mason story grows more bonkers.

https://skwawkbox.org/2019/05/28/union-leaders-northern-mp-take-imploding-mason-to-task-for-shame-of-attack-on-lavery-and-loto-staff/

Here's what "senior Labor sources" spent until 2 am organising - hours after Labour's election collapse: union leaders, MPs, fake news sites... not analysing the causes of defeat but attacking me. When someone writes a hatchet job, always ask cui bono. Who ordered this? https://t.co/aMa8kKrYUv

— Paul Mason (@paulmasonnews) May 28, 2019

Why is it deemed more attractive than Germany, France or the Netherlands, even now?

Stronger previously established communities? Dystopian neoliberal hellscape making it easier to get a job right away and without much paperwork? Those are the two reasons I've observed most amongst the ppl I've spoken to, no idea if it applies for Romania (tho I guess the first point at least would?)

English spoken here.

^ Definitley a factor too.

Language a big factor, yes. More and more Romanians working and consequently staying/living here though.

I'm sure a lot, possibly most, would rather go to the USA but that's an ocean away and the UK will have to do.

There was no substantial Romanian community in the UK prior to the recent exodus, so that's certainly not the reason why. English can be an obstacle in some cases, which is why the first wave of Romanian EU emigrants moved to Spain and Italy. Dystopian neoliberal hellscape (perceived as a good thing by most Eastern Europeans) is closer to the truth.

Bargain basement America, except what's lower than bargain basement?

I was talking in general, not about Romanians fwiw.

(Just in case: Spanish and especially Italian are ridiculously easy to learn when your mother tongue is Romanian.)

Np Tom, I was responding to Daniel.

As far as the non-linguistic factors are concerned, that is.

Italy possibly even more hostile to Romanians than the UK as well, tbf.

The rest of the Balkans seems very focused on Germany so idk if there is a perception there's less competition for jobs in the UK.

Romanians sure have found their way into agriculture here in Holland over the last couple of years. Hostility, as far as I can perceive it, mostly still reserved for Poles :-/

It's fairly simple, really: in Romania, the UK is viewed as an extremely rich, civilized and noble country where hard work pays off and real values are upheld. It remains a fantasy for many foreigners, as baffling as that may seem to some of you.

Plenty of Romanians move to Germany as well, by the way. We even have a historical minority (the Saxons, heh) in Transylvania, of which the most famous at the moment is probably our current president, Klaus Iohannis. See also: Herta Müller.

real values of Real England

"An extremely rich, civilized and noble country where hard work pays off and real values are upheld": The ILX lol Brexit we're all gonna die thread

I wish I was kidding. This image tends to subsist even past the first encounters with reality.

everybpdy got a plan til you punch em in the mouth

- t may

Khabib Nurmagomedov begs to differ.

It's sometimes easy to forget the high regard in which the UK is still held, even in countries we've had relatively recent wars / disputes with (Argentina, Russia, etc).

It's a combination with an overestimation of British cultural life with an enduring belief in the kind of fastidious reliability and commitment to fair-play we'd probably attribute to Germans, ime. Part of the reason people are so fascinated with Brexit is that it seems so 'out of character'.

youve never had it that bad

Not the first wealthy Western nation to paint itself as a dystopia tbf.

for millions of non-wealthy people it actually is a dystopia

It's sometimes easy to forget the high regard in which the UK is still held, even in countries we've had relatively recent wars / disputes with (Argentina, Russia, etc).

look we're doing everything we can, it's not our fault that furriners aren't paying close enough attention to our attempts at self-immolation

"with an overestimation of British cultural life.."

let's face it last night of the proms has always been dogshit!

Why are poorer Brits not emigrating to other, less dystopian nations?

it's not someone else's fault morrissey was never our eurovision entry

they're full of furriners iirc xp

xp we only speak english

And don't say they can't afford it. Desperate Eastern Europeans (among others) are moving the UK despite their meagre financial means.

xps

I'd wager it's exceptionally easy for Brits to settle in countries that still vaguely worship them.

Seriously, though, if it's such a dystopia, why is immigration such a one-way street? This goes for plenty of other Western countries, by the way (except the US, because it's a wholly different can of worms).

Nor do I wish to imply that Britain is a paradisiacal island or belittle your problems, which are very much real. I'm speaking in relative rather than absolute terms.

plenty of wealthy middle-aged Brits head off to Spain or France for their retirements

Australia is full up.

fuck knows why poor UK ppl don't leave, but it doesn't mean the grinding poverty of the working poor in this country hasn't got even more terrible in the last decade. Only posh English ppl emigrate these days. When you are trapped in a system of poverty wages, the random evil of UC, foodbank assistance - how the fuck are you supposed to get the scratch together to go to Finland or wherever?

Also the UK has a lot of decent universities, a lot of young people tend to turn up here to study and then stay. (xpost)

I don't think anyone here isn't aware that there are many, many countries far worse off than the UK. This is small comfort for people living in poverty tho.

fwiw my initial use of dystopian in this convo was already an acknowledgement that the precarity and cuelty of the UK job market is seen as business-as-usual or even a step up for lots of people coming here

xpost

When you are trapped in a system of poverty wages, the random evil of UC, foodbank assistance - how the fuck are you supposed to get the scratch together to go to Finland or wherever?

I hear you, but why is it the Eastern Europeans are saying 'fuck it, I'm out' and not the Brits?

it's an Island nation which was for centuries insulated from mainland European wars and doesn't have that tradition of mass flight prevalent all over Europe ..perhaps? just a thought.

my parents emigrated here.. my brother emigrated to Dubai .. but I'm stuck in this shithole!

It's because the risk/reward ratio is so much higher, wages are higher in the UK than Romania so if you don't mind where you live you can save enough to send money home or have a lump sum to take back at some point in the future. There isn't an equivalent wage jump if you emigrate from the UK, unless you work in a sector where there are especially lucrative jobs in the Middle East or wherever.

Romanian millennials grew up with fond views of Englishmen such as Phil Neville

lol!

Maybe he'll switch them on to vegetarianism. That would be a sight!

it's an Island nation which was for centuries insulated from mainland European wars and doesn't have that tradition of mass flight prevalent all over Europe ..perhaps? just a thought.

― calzino, Tuesday, 28 May 2019 11:08 (one minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

interesting tack, and an interesting question/discussion imo

xp lol

Isolated island nation is a factor sure but Matt DC's answer is really all there is to it in 2019, you don't see poor people in Germany, France, etc. immigrating much either because really there's no place to go that would make financial sense.