Seizing back control: The ILX lol brexit is how we're all gonna die thread.

i mean from most perspectives they had more to gain by doing it to May and here we are

i think the chances of the parliamentary Tories no-confidencing a newly-elected leader, of any stripe, are infinitesimal

*one* of the key reasons for the failure of a parliamentary way out of this impasse is that most career MPs will never underestimate the cowardice of their fellow career MPs

otm

When you find out Tommy Robinson got smashed in the European elections... 🕺🤣 #EuropeanElectionResults #EUElectionResults pic.twitter.com/khlhWP5zbl

— Dave Ward (@DaveWardGS) May 27, 2019

this is beautiful

Excellent use of the meme, which should slowly override its Untergang variant.

You know you’re old when it’s your first time seeing a meme

NV OTM — but Brexit is and always has been Tory mutually assured destruction. The new leader doesn’t get a honeymoon, they get faced with a rapidly ticking clock to Oct 31 and don’t even have time for No Deal prep.

There are enough Tories who know exactly what No Deal means (and what it will do to their careers) that that there’s just no sane route to it happening (on Oct 31, at least)

Absolutely agree there's no sane route, thinking more of Govellum falling into the pit of Mount Doom with May's gnawed-off finger in his hands

in some ways i think Gove is even more dangerous than boris. he's probably more likely to happen and is more of a dour stayer type, who will obsessively see his grim and stupidly detrimental ideas implemented on the UK.

Say we get to the deadline with a new Prime Minister and Parliament still intractably deadlocked. I guess that the EU will never outright say "no further extension without a general election" - seems like a bad look for them to put outright pressure on a (kind of still) member state's political process. I assume there's not much certainty at the moment as to what the stance towards Brexit will be given the shake-up of the European parliament. Surely if the will is there on the EU side to extend further they'll still need to insist on some kind of pretext to offer it?

https://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2019/05/27/european-elections-remain-triumphant

Remain won

Whatever the policy of Labour on Europe it can't be a 2nd ref/Remain and reform. These people are dumb and reckless. The libs don't like revoke (good) because it's undemocratic but it could piss a lot of Labour voters who I reckon sat out the Euro elections.

https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/may/28/remainers-eu-elections-second-brexit-referendum?__twitter_impression=true

Lol:

"Labour needs to renew, rethink and gird up for a wholehearted challenge to the dark forces pushing for no deal. Unlike the last referendum’s half-hearted efforts, next time Labour needs to detribalise and share comradely platforms with all other remainers – just as many such as David Lammy have at every remain rally, embracing the full gamut, from Michael Heseltine and Vince Cable to Caroline Lucas and Nicola Sturgeon."

gr8 analysis, Farage has already given up after reading it .. and quelle surprise "The main culprit, of course, is Jeremy Corbyn and the immoveable ideologes around him." lol fucking clown.

glad to see somebody "won"

Can't give these people an inch.

From my Euro-election post vote poll: 53% of 2017 Conservatives who turned out on Thursday switched to the Brexit Party; 12% went to the Lib Dems. Only 21% stayed with the Tories.

38% of 2017 Labour voters stayed with Labour. 22% went to the Lib Dems, 17% Green, 13% Brexit. pic.twitter.com/LU0F7u7aFa

— Lord Ashcroft (@LordAshcroft) May 27, 2019

Yeah I know it's Ashcroft but it strikes me that the complete collapse of the Remain Tory vote has gone largely ignored. The LibDems got almost as many votes from the Tories as they got from Labour.

Xpost - when a sizeable chunk of the electorate is saying "don't take us for granted" it strikes me as a little on the complacent side to assume they'll return to the fold in a GE and carry on as normal. If you chose not to do something because a few pricks also wanted you to do it you'd never get anything done.

Oh god that Toynbee article, associating with Heseltine is supposed to help how exactly?

You need different Remain campaigns for different voter groups not one big banal happy clappy coalition that alienates as many people as it attracts.

Remain and reform us going to be the new "we won't cut as far and as fast as the Tories".

yep. even if Corbyn completely deferred to Watson on 2nd Ref, it wouldn't be enough for these continuity tory-lite cunts.

The whole thread (has that Ashcroft chart) is good.

Narrative is mostly about Labour bleeding Remainer support and Tories bleeding Brexiteers support. But Brexit Party is only slightly (5%) up on Ukip vote from 2014, which doesn't account for the Tories being down 14%...

— Jon Stone (@joncstone) May 27, 2019

Thing is a lot of the crowd that voted Corbyn in 2017 held their nose at the time. It's a coalition.

If Tories go hard Brexit at the next election they will have to vote Labour to have a chance of stopping this, so..

I’m unsure about the viability of the holding-their-nose crowd’s argument or why they think they’re so uniquely special - i wasn’t particularly enthused voting labour in 2015 but look at the alternatives. Voting for the least worst option is what we all have to do.

The corresponding argument, that people felt safe voting Labour knowing they couldn’t win, wasn’t borne out in reality, in fact it was the exact opposite: https://www.britishelectionstudy.com/bes-findings/did-people-vote-for-jeremy-corbyn-because-they-thought-he-would-lose/
(Love the cameo from Joan Ryan in there, lol)

Also:

Exclusive:

Michael Gove would allow 3 million EU nationals living in the UK at the time of the referendum British citizenship at no cost, in order to heal Brexit divisions if he becomes Prime Minister, Sky News can confirm https://t.co/UvG18BNVAG

— Tamara Cohen (@tamcohen) May 27, 2019

Remain and reform us going to be the new "we won't cut as far and as fast as the Tories".

"We won't cut as far and fast as the Tories" was a watered-down version of Tory policy, remain and reform would be the opposite of it.

Corbyn outperformed Miliband because he was offering clear blue water between Labour and Tory policies, not a slightly nicer version of their policies. "A Brexit that protects jobs..." is closer to a Miliband fudge.

It would be hasty to commit to a course too quickly, but the Tory leadership contest gives Labour an opportunity to recast its position, and to an extent that will depend on who wins.

I still don't really know what you think should be done here, just various flavours of what shouldn't.

There probably are 3m people who'd want to take the citizenship soup? I mean, I guess as an Irish person we're given almost instantaneous rights here as soon as we're paying taxes so it never seems necessary, but presumably if it was become a citizen or risk being kicked out (is this the real implication of Gove's offer?) then a lot of people would sign up, or be more desperate to do so.

Not all countries offer dual citizenship though. I know the Netherlands doesn’t.

Matt - one other thing that shouldn't be done is panic after a protest vote

Yeah not sure on that side. I did see a few people I'm vaguely acquainted with posting on social media about getting citizenship in the last few years, guess it depends on circumstances. None of them were Irish tho.

xpost

I was also on CH reading about the EU elections and a large number of the comments were about how EU (and esp Irish) citizens shouldn’t be allowed to vote here under any circumstances - never mind that this is a reciprocal right - and people should take British citizenship if they want these rights. So in three years we’ve gone from EU citizens can stay to “take their rights away unless they swear loyalty to the queen”. Cool!

Germany will stop allowing double citizenship once the UK leaves the EU.

Dunno how much the "brexit divisions" have to do with EU citizens anyway, we weren't under the illusion we were welcome before tbh.

xpost

we weren't under the illusion we were welcome before tbh

There are innumerable articles claiming the exact opposite.

The 'I thought I was in the world's most welcoming country, how could they do this to us?' piece is a genre unto itself at this point, and not just in English.

Is it really controversial to say the UK hasn't got the greatest reputation when it comes to welcoming foreigners? Anecdotal evidence, I know, but I've yet to meet anyone who thought "world's most welcoming country"...

Among the uninformed, yes. And they are legion. Not to mention it's a highly desirable destination for immigrants to Europe (in the broad sense), even post-Brexit.

Not to mention it's a highly desirable destination for immigrants to Europe (in the broad sense), even post-Brexit.

These are two separate things, tho: you don't have to think a country is welcoming to think it's worth going there. Financial considerations are much more important in many cases.

It's telling that so many Romanians are scrambling to immigrate to the UK before the door closes for good. Why is it deemed more attractive than Germany, France or the Netherlands, even now?

has anyone had any experience with labour groups like momentum or open labour? curious about how strong a network they have and how effectively they organise, as they could potentially prove decisive over the next few years & esp w/ appointing a successor. momentum at least seem busy.

There is a very noisy anti-immigration constituency in the UK but that's actually lower than in a lot of other European countries, in general more people in this country see immigration as a positive than elsewhere in Europe, certainly compared to Italy or France. Obviously not all immigrants are equal in the eyes of a lot of Brits but the same goes everywhere:

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2019/05/the-british-are-the-most-positive-in-europe-on-the-benefits-of-immigration/

Or, you can realise that the milieu you’ll be living/working in is substantially more welcoming/multicultural/urbane than what’s broadly considered ‘average’.

The Paul Mason story grows more bonkers.

https://skwawkbox.org/2019/05/28/union-leaders-northern-mp-take-imploding-mason-to-task-for-shame-of-attack-on-lavery-and-loto-staff/

Here's what "senior Labor sources" spent until 2 am organising - hours after Labour's election collapse: union leaders, MPs, fake news sites... not analysing the causes of defeat but attacking me. When someone writes a hatchet job, always ask cui bono. Who ordered this? https://t.co/aMa8kKrYUv

— Paul Mason (@paulmasonnews) May 28, 2019

Why is it deemed more attractive than Germany, France or the Netherlands, even now?

Stronger previously established communities? Dystopian neoliberal hellscape making it easier to get a job right away and without much paperwork? Those are the two reasons I've observed most amongst the ppl I've spoken to, no idea if it applies for Romania (tho I guess the first point at least would?)

English spoken here.

^ Definitley a factor too.

Language a big factor, yes. More and more Romanians working and consequently staying/living here though.

I'm sure a lot, possibly most, would rather go to the USA but that's an ocean away and the UK will have to do.

There was no substantial Romanian community in the UK prior to the recent exodus, so that's certainly not the reason why. English can be an obstacle in some cases, which is why the first wave of Romanian EU emigrants moved to Spain and Italy. Dystopian neoliberal hellscape (perceived as a good thing by most Eastern Europeans) is closer to the truth.

Bargain basement America, except what's lower than bargain basement?

I was talking in general, not about Romanians fwiw.