Seizing back control: The ILX lol brexit is how we're all gonna die thread.

Look, having enemies is the old politics

Look, politics is the old politics

Look, having a functional spell check is the old politics

Look, wanting to live is the old politics

Look at the moment and see if we can get the problem to work it out as soon as I am ooh

Samuel Beckett's play Catastrophe, which he dedicated to Václav Havel, can at last be read as the prescient exhortation to leave the EU it was all along.

a packed Olympic Conference Centre in London

Maximum Capacity (seated): 600

Samuel Beckett's play /Catastrophe/, which he dedicated to Václav Havel, can at last be read as the prescient exhortation to leave the EU it was all along.

Samuel Beckett's play /Catastrophe/, which he dedicated to Václav Havel, can at last be read as the prescient exhortation to leave the EU it was all along

tbfttl he always argued the case for the status quo too

Some interesting conversations with work colleagues this evening about the European election. One Italian and one Spanish, both very left wing, and one English, er, not very political. He (Italian) pumped me for information about the Lib Dems, what they stand for, what their ideology is, what their history is. Actually, first of all, he was asking me about the SNP because apparently there's an SNP candidate who's been endorsed by Yanis Varoufakis. When I told him SNP stood for the Scottish National Party, he was confused because nationalist parties are supposed to be right wing, aren't they? It seems he and my Spanish colleague had been talking about voting for this guy, I had to disappoint them by pointing out the SNP don't field any candidates in England! So, then she (Spanish) asked me who I thought she should vote for instead because, obviously, she can't vote Labour because they're not Remain, she knew the Lib Dems were Remain but also knew enough about them not to vote for them. For both, the most important thing is that whoever they vote for be Remain. My English colleague didn't know what the election was about and had no idea there was such a thing as the European Parliament.

The Italian guy was also quizzing me on the history of the Labour Party, "Where they ever Marxist?". "Er, not really". I should point out that this guy is from a family with a famous Marxist/Anarchist lineage, like his great (great?) grandfather was a friend of Gramsci's etc.

This ridiculous footage of a Brexiteer being called a traitory snowflake for not quite being brexity enough is an amazing summary of where Brexit is right nowpic.twitter.com/D9YhUSwZSg

— James Felton (@JimMFelton) May 21, 2019

Somebody chuck my phone into the sea

All I’m getting from my friends is that they’re not voting for CUKTIG under any circumstances and they’d normally vote Labour, so I’m spending a lot of time rubbishing the Lib Dems, being much nicer about the Greens and saying that ‘message’ votes away from Labour aren’t simple because the Labour MEPs are all Remainers and the bloc system in the EU Parliament puts Labour in with the Socialist bloc. Had I a vote, it would be for Labour on the basis that I’d want Labour MEPs serving five-year terms. And Seb Dance is fantastic, so there’s also that.

My university lecturer friend who came over to watch Years and Years last night (and whose university is being decimated by cuts thanks to Coalition policies only now taking hold) initially said he was going for Lib Dems (me: “whaaaaaat the ever-loving FUCK?”) but after a comprehensive chat it’s either Greens or Labour (he likes Corbyn).

The system of voting for a list of candidates is fucking madness, and typical of the kind of overly party-centric politics in this country. Where's the accountability when you're asked to vote for eight candidates at once or whatever, and one could be Mary Poppins while the next one is Captain Hook? Also just the implication that because I vote Labour I'm therefore happy enough to vote for all candidates simultaneously, are all of them going to canvas together? Obviously not, again, more disdain for actual electoral politics.

None of this can have helped the attitude towards the EU and EU politics.

And like, despite extensive googling there doesn't seem to be anything online that says who these candidates are, what their background is, their qualifications or beliefs, even Labour's own website is just a list of their names. Not even a photo.

I'm not singling out Labour, I assume it's similar for other parties, just using them as an example since they're the party I investigated for this info.

xxp
There is an LSE lecturer who is a remainer I follow on twitter who I assumed would be a natural CUK/LibDem supporter in the current state of affairs, so it was very gratifying reading her ripping into them both and especially the CUK's who she described as "an affront to democracy".

FH you have to carefully study all the shit that comes through your letterbox, it’s the only way

I’ve sorted through the pile and singled out “best kebab” as the party for me

(xps) I tried explaining this electoral process to my Italian and Spanish colleagues last night and had to stop because it sounded so ridiculous I wasn't sure if I was getting right - and I was, more or less.

I actually did get a leaflet through the door which began "dear curry lover" recently and I had words with the guy who delivered it as I don't know how he got in to the building.

Are you serious in any way on that point wins? The leaflets just seem big brand advertisements, like as if mentioning candidates or policies is less effective than just telling me to vote Labour.

I just think it's a major indictment of democracy. Surely, for lots of people, elections and canvassing are how they come to know who their local politicians are and what they believe. I can think of lots of Irish MEPs from the past based on strong canvassing and presence in the media after getting elected.

I dunno if it's another symptom of Ireland thinking of the EU as a big entity from which we can get things, money, decisions which you negotiate for or fight for, versus here where it's like a subsidiary election for your party's branding.

And Tom D otm, if I have to google to find out how it even works or google every candidate, that level of effort probably eliminates huge swathes of the electorate who just won't bother. Like our democracy is a government service and it's deeply neglected and broken, even as far as basic user needs like "I need to know how the vote works" or "I need to know which candidate might get in if I vote for this party" etc etc

The actual process by which people decide to vote is something a proper government would be strengthening, but I guess we are far, far away from that kind of thing in the UK at the moment.

Philip Alston otm on Universal Credit : " a digital version of the 19th century workhouse". The BBC are covering this much more prominently than the last time his report was making the headlines and being dismissed by tories as "political".

"Barely believable" is the UK governemnt's line on this.

human rights expert fabricating a report on poverty shocker, nothing to see here!

Required reading for anyone considering voting for the Lib Dems in the near future.

1.5 million people experienced destitution, meaning they had less than £10 a day after housing costs, or they had to go without at least two essentials such as shelter, food, heat, light, clothing or toiletries during a one-month period.

this needs quoting every time some mealy mouthed cunt on the tv talks about the record low unemployment this country is enjoying.

xps no the leaflets are useless, I’ve not paid attention to any of them really

yeah mine are all just big brand labour type things

lol bbc radio 4 treating JRM and his new Victorian book that has even been roundly eviscerated by all the tory rags, with upmost respect and reverence.

Most political research and polling shows time and time again that British people vote with a party or a party leader in mind - unless the candidate is a real trooper of a constituency MP or prominent local figure people just don't care that much about individual candidates at constituency level. People vote for the rosette first and foremost. It's why the CHUK candidates are fucked at national level.

None of this has anything to do with the reason British people have historically not been bothered about EU elections - they just see it as remote and divorced from their everyday concerns. It's a big part of the reason we're in this mess, because a big chunk of population, perhaps a majority, have never seen themselves as truly represented in Europe.

Things are complicated this time around because people do care - but the trigger for voting is 'make a point about Brexit' not 'who do you want representing you in Europe?' It's why support for the two main parties is so low - this is perhaps the first election ever when no one's voting with government of any type in mind. It's almost entirely about political signalling.

FH, the whole of Europe (pretty much) uses a list-based proportional representation system, the UK's not an outlier: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_to_the_European_Parliament#Country_by_country

So Ireland is the outlier, maybe. I guess confidence in the EU isn't high generally around Europe.

they just see it as remote and divorced from their everyday concerns

To me this seems right at the heart of the issues I raise. Like in Ireland the EU is a thing we extract benefits from, the candidates are running on the basis of ability to squeeze out benefits from the fat udder of the EU - that comes from us being comfortable with the idea of being a small country. I don't think anyone here sees the EU this way and I'm not sure how you would given there's no accountability whatsoever or no personalities involved or no sense of putting trust in a single elected representative to deliver for you. I mean, sure, that leads to gombeen man politics etc but the depressed alternative is worse.

The idea of the EU delivering things for a region is simply never mentioned or established, and I don't think that's just in this particularly unusual vote post-Brexit.

Most political research and polling shows time and time again that British people vote with a party or a party leader in mind - unless the candidate is a real trooper of a constituency MP or prominent local figure people just don't care that much about individual candidates at constituency level.

Because only two parties ever get in. Because nobody canvasses since there's no proportional representation so if they're not voting for you as number one they don't matter. The EU elections are a fairly comfortable mirror image of the problems with the general system.

Anyway I'll add this here for the lolz but it also illustrates the difference:

If you missed Ben Gilroys video..... pic.twitter.com/w7VZXR51UM

— Alan Kinsella (@electionlit) May 20, 2019

btw make absolutely sure you watch to the very end

I think the lacklustre campaigning comes down to the fact that generally no one has given a shit about EU elections, this is a weird election, especially for labour, there's a lot of doorstep aggro, and there are small/new parties standing that don't have much of a local presence to mobilise. I cld go canvassing tonight but I've made other plans

This will be the first time I've ever voted in them in my life and have 2 votes cos partner couldn't be arsed with any of them + kindly gave me her postal vote. Just purely voting for the rosette because it is the first in my 40+ years there has been a Labour party worth supporting. I'm not even thinking about the EU tbh.

passed ben parked up beside a plasma screen van playing that vid yesterday and laughed at him and no lie he followed me for ten seconds before a companion pulled him back

our chief freeman on the land for any connoisseurs

Nobody cares about the EU elections has always been the problem, and after tomorrow it will be about how much damage the Brexit party can do in a general election, and to whom.

In a GE when brexit party needs a manifesto beyond just brexit stabbed-in-the-back, that is where voters will desert them in droves imo. But I'm probably wrong.

Special mention to Slovakia and their 13% turnout last time, throwing down the gauntlet to the Cezech Republic's 18%.

Gonna make a prediction that the brexit party will never fight a general election, they're just a left luggage for tory votes at the current awkward moment

and the bloc system in the EU Parliament puts Labour in with the Socialist bloc.

This is one factor that's making me lean towards voting Greens in this election - name aside the Socialist bloc ain't exactly great, most of the parties involved are still comparable to Blair-era Labour. Green bloc have a much better track record at fighting lobbying, revolving doors, etc.

And like, despite extensive googling there doesn't seem to be anything online that says who these candidates are, what their background is, their qualifications or beliefs, even Labour's own website is just a list of their names. Not even a photo.

Fair play to the (otherwise useless) Labour leaflet I got tho: out of the four I received (Labour, Green, UKIP, Brexit Party) they're the only ones that actually bothered to list the names of their candidates.

None of this has anything to do with the reason British people have historically not been bothered about EU elections - they just see it as remote and divorced from their everyday concerns. It's a big part of the reason we're in this mess, because a big chunk of population, perhaps a majority, have never seen themselves as truly represented in Europe.

This analysis would be OTM in many other places in the European Union too.

list/PR elections don't help with that disconnect either, though tinkering with the voting system is not likely to help

I won't be voting as a UK resident because it's frankly not my place to do so (I'll most likely be gone within a year anyway). I'd vote at the Romanian consulate if it didn't mean spending 25 bucks (sorry, I sound like a phony when I say 'quid') and at least 5h in all on a round-trip to London.

Not sure the brex p would need much of a manifesto beyond brexit stab in the back to be a faorce in a general election. But as i say, i don't think that's the game

fairly healthy turnouts in ireland, give or take. the eu needs to give out some hurleys.

i've actually had a fair old google now and i honestly can't find any biographies of the labour candidates, apart from a twitter profile for one or two. eventually it leaves me thinking they don't want you to know anything about these candidates. i'll stop harping on now but isn't this completely absurd?

same with lib dems, for the sake of balance.

list-based elections encourage anonymous lists of party aparatchiks, along with the swivel-eyed weirdos of the Brexit party

FernandoHierro I googled all the Labour candidates and most of them have wikipedia pages? Greens more difficult tho, mostly just twitter profiles.

Claire Fox will become an elected politician as a result of this voting
system - if that isn't an argument against it, I give up.

i don't want to vote now unless i can vote for Ben Gilroy