Well that certainly happened, but how do you see it as evidence of corruption and collusion with the media? The News Ltd papers spouting their usual anti-Labor cant? It's been that way forever. My take is that Shorten, for all his good qualities, was fundamentally unelectable for reasons I don't really get. I think we will see Penny Wong MP in the Reps within 5 years and taking the leadership.
― an incoherent crustacean (MatthewK), Saturday, 18 May 2019 23:17 (five years ago) link
Yeah, I've never really heard anyone articulate the reasons for Shorten's personal unpopularity. I mean, if Abbott and Morrison are electable...Possibly the saddest thing: having run and lost with a vaguely progressive agenda this time, Labor's mostly modest, no-brainer reform proposals will be poison for several parliamentary terms. Labor's right factions hardly need further encouragement.
― Nag! Nag! Nag!, Sunday, 19 May 2019 00:39 (five years ago) link
how do you see it as evidence of corruption and collusion with the media?
in that this government has been objectively worse than gillard/rudd at every single thing, but the press have given them a free pass at every turn. news corp obviously, but also whatever-fairfax-is-called-now flipped hard-right the second nine bought the company, and even the abc has been gentle on them out of fear that they’ll be punished even further. they’ve had a dream run where labor got massacred on a daily basis.
Yeah, I've never really heard anyone articulate the reasons for Shorten's personal unpopularity. I mean, if Abbott and Morrison are electable...
― times 牛肉麵 (Autumn Almanac), Sunday, 19 May 2019 02:33 (five years ago) link
Shorten was never bad or poisonous; he was nothing. Voters respond to personal charisma generally, and it's also an extremely effective way of selling policies.
(Albo is a better communicator and campaigner than Shorten, but I think has been wise to not seek to do so on a national scale before. Plibersek would make a great leader and campaigner, but I'm afraid the eradication of a neutral news media is gonna make it hard-to-impossible for any woman to last a term in opposition.)
― blokes you can't rust (sic), Sunday, 19 May 2019 10:13 (five years ago) link
yeah i do think albo is the best choice, at least right now. he could sit nicely in the long shadow of hawke.i see your point about shorten, but given the hideous alternative we were faced with (and got) (again), labor should have romped this in. country’s fucked.
― times 牛肉麵 (Autumn Almanac), Sunday, 19 May 2019 10:27 (five years ago) link
Shorten was widely acknowledged to be less popular than the party he led, as preferred PM he trailed the last three Lib leaders consistently while the ALP were ahead by decent margins.Consensus today seems to be that Queensland went hard for the Libs because the left wing southerners were touring the place telling them not to do the Adani deal, which didn't go over well. That, and a constantly shifting message from the ALP while Morrison was able to scare the electorate that if the franking credits were on the chopping block, who knows what other radical changes were coming. And sticking to the myth that the Coalition "manages the economy" (ha fucking ha) better than Labor.
― an incoherent crustacean (MatthewK), Sunday, 19 May 2019 10:48 (five years ago) link
the labor message did seem to move around a lot
― times 牛肉麵 (Autumn Almanac), Sunday, 19 May 2019 11:23 (five years ago) link
basically a) everyone is fucking stupid/greedy and b) bledge sharmep is unlikeable
Tanya is probably the best bet now for the ALP, I reckon a highly competent female leader will be a great counterpoint to the shitshow that will be the next three years of government.
― Tokyo Ghetto Stüssy (King Boy Pato), Sunday, 19 May 2019 14:35 (five years ago) link
but she’s a woooooommmmmaaaaaannnnnn, the conservative tears will elevate sea levels
― times 牛肉麵 (Autumn Almanac), Sunday, 19 May 2019 22:07 (five years ago) link
The problem with compulsory voting is you have, lets face it, the bulk of people voting on cult of personality and nothing else.
I'm here to tell you right now thats why Labor lost. Even Charlie Pickering was shitting on Shorten on his show last week for being a boring useless turd.
What someone's like as a person should have absolutely nothing to do with how anyone votes for a political party. But when you make the unwashed masses who actually dont care all have a say, they'll just fire off the easiest thing they think of, sorry.
I have to say I dont agree on the corruption comment though, not re the media? Geez all the polls coming in had labor in front and Hawke was venerated even in the Herald Snu.
― Stoop Crone (Trayce), Sunday, 19 May 2019 22:42 (five years ago) link
Consensus today seems to be that Queensland went hard for the Libs because the left wing southerners were touring the place telling them not to do the Adani deal
This is also unsurprising to be blunt and fatalist. The focus on Adani so heavily really baffled me, esp coming from down here. I agree with an anti coal stance but now was not the time to make that the forefront argument if you want to win over the bulk of regional and northern aus. Jobs, infrastructure, taxes schools and health is all we should have been banging on about. People like my dad hear "adani" or "climate change" and immediately shut down.
― Stoop Crone (Trayce), Sunday, 19 May 2019 22:53 (five years ago) link
always thought that if the US had compulsory voting the Republicans would never ever ever win again, maybe wrong though, I don't trust any assumption anymore
― Dan S, Sunday, 19 May 2019 23:00 (five years ago) link
Making people who dont give a shit about politics vote is fraught. And they just dont teach civics in Aus schools in any meaningful way unless you actively take modern history classes (at least they didnt when I was in school, dunno what its like now)
― Stoop Crone (Trayce), Sunday, 19 May 2019 23:05 (five years ago) link
there have been a whole load of hot takes since saturday night (i mean in the general discourse, not anyone here), but the one theme that’s emerging today is that labor appealed to the generous, considerate side of australians, but most australians are selfish bigots who don’t give a single fuck about empathy
― times 牛肉麵 (Autumn Almanac), Sunday, 19 May 2019 23:16 (five years ago) link
sounds familiar to me
― Dan S, Sunday, 19 May 2019 23:20 (five years ago) link
Adani, the death/retiree tax scare and the right wing slant of the media all played a role. But I don't think that lets Labor totally off the hook, Labor MPs put in Shorten as a factional play, even though rank and file members had gone for Albo and even though it was already obvious that he didn't play well with the general public.
― Zelda Zonk, Sunday, 19 May 2019 23:49 (five years ago) link
it’s bizarre all this focus on shorten being unpopular/unelectable when the coalition has been fielding toxic fuckheads for >20 years
― times 牛肉麵 (Autumn Almanac), Sunday, 19 May 2019 23:58 (five years ago) link
― El Tomboto, Sunday, 19 May 2019 23:59 (five years ago) link
fwiw it’s compulsory turning-up-to-vote, you can do what you like with the ballot papers
― times 牛肉麵 (Autumn Almanac), Monday, 20 May 2019 00:01 (five years ago) link
Really enjoying the endless "you shouldn't blame Queenslanders, they were scared and misinformed" takes, as though being a stupid fuckwit makes you less culpable for torching everything.
― And according to some websites, there were “sexcapades.” (James Morrison), Monday, 20 May 2019 00:01 (five years ago) link
otm
As usual when Labor lose "unloseable" elections it's down to hubris and the smugness of the messaging - conservative middle-of-the-road Australians see schoolchildren taking the afternoon off school to hold up "Stop Adani" signs as a supposed grassroots movement, when let's be honest most kids would never have heard of Adani if it hadn't been a carefully orchestrated message, plays into the reactionary mindset. Messaging about the "top end of town" and smug right-on Instagrammable movements spell "POLITICAL CORRECTNESS" to your average rural Tasmanian or north Queenslander, who thinks "right, screw you guys" and votes for the familiar bunch of accountants and lawyers representing resistance to change and a desire to keep my money rather than give it to the pinkos and the dole bludgers. Idealism, especially choreographed self-righteous idealism, is poison at the ballot box.
― an incoherent crustacean (MatthewK), Monday, 20 May 2019 00:14 (five years ago) link
absolutely do blame queenslanders, they are wanton dickheads glorying in their ignorance and insularity and bigotry and sticking it to the “lefty’s”
― estela, Monday, 20 May 2019 00:18 (five years ago) link
the idea of idealism being poison at the ballot box is depressing
― Dan S, Monday, 20 May 2019 00:21 (five years ago) link
Compulsory voting is a bad idea because it violates freedom of expression, it doesn’t matter what other effects it has. compulsory enrolment in no way violates your freedom to draw a dick on your ballot, or to not bother turning up on the day, or from numbering 105 boxes in the order you want to(also, what freedom of expression?)even working at a federal election and having to explain to belligerent 18-yo tradies why they’re “supposed” to vote while their 17-yo gfs apologise over the top of them has not turned me off popular enrolment
― blokes you can't rust (sic), Monday, 20 May 2019 00:28 (five years ago) link
matthewk: not that i disagree with you in principle at all, but i think the more hostile bigots will vote for bigotry whether kids are holding “STOP ADANI” placards or not. entitled fucks will always find an excuse to be entitled fucks, and it will always be someone else’s fault that they’re entitled fucks. remember all the “gays are wearing rainbow shoelaces IN MY TOWN and that’s why i will vote against their marriage rights” rhetoric from a couple of years back.
― times 牛肉麵 (Autumn Almanac), Monday, 20 May 2019 00:37 (five years ago) link
QLD really is a bit of another country compared to evrywhere else.
But people also forget regional NSW. Where I grew up is an exception (I guess eden monaro has canberra to boost it a bit to the left?) but everywhere west and south of the blue mountains people seem to forget about, and its all fairly centrist/slightly right in my experience. Not rabidly pro-mining/anti-reffoes/anti gay exactly but just... really whitebread?
― Stoop Crone (Trayce), Monday, 20 May 2019 00:38 (five years ago) link
I just always assume that people who don’t show up to vote are uin favor of more liberal politicians/policies . At least it seems that way in the United States
― Dan S, Monday, 20 May 2019 00:42 (five years ago) link
― an incoherent crustacean (MatthewK), Monday, 20 May 2019 00:43 (five years ago) link
Compulsory voting and preferential voting are good not badAustralians are bad not good
― And according to some websites, there were “sexcapades.” (James Morrison), Monday, 20 May 2019 00:44 (five years ago) link
This is heartening at least. I have plenty more to say but work to do right now.
Our statement on secure jobs and a safe climate. pic.twitter.com/O7budJqSob— NUW (@NatUnionWorkers) May 20, 2019
― American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Monday, 20 May 2019 00:45 (five years ago) link
AA I agree with you but I think the notions of social justice / humane treatment of refugees / indigenous recognition / sexual and gender diversity / climate action / anything not resembling the 1950s can be very conveniently wrapped up in the "political correctness" bundle for those who dislike even a couple of those notions. Bigotry is a bad look but if you're against "more bloody political correctness" you're a dead set Aussie legend, have another snag. The smug and self-righteous way that the ALP, Greens and supporters delivered their messages basically facilitated the bundling and made it easy to justify rejecting it at the ballot box. Don't get me wrong, I fall on the left side of all of those issues and vote accordingly, but I wince when I see how they are presented to middle Australia. For all his faults Kevin Rudd understood this. As did Kim Beazley.
― an incoherent crustacean (MatthewK), Monday, 20 May 2019 00:50 (five years ago) link
(as did Bob Hawke, of course)
― an incoherent crustacean (MatthewK), Monday, 20 May 2019 00:51 (five years ago) link
I'm in agreeance with Matt tbh.
Look at Dan Andrews. He's Labor/left but hes playing the middle and Getting Shit Done, he wont get into slagging matches about the other side, he doesnt press ht button issues, he just rolls up his sleeves.
― Stoop Crone (Trayce), Monday, 20 May 2019 01:03 (five years ago) link
(sorry for my very disjointed replies i rly should be working lol)
― Stoop Crone (Trayce), Monday, 20 May 2019 01:04 (five years ago) link
just saw on wechat that a friend campaigned for frydenberg. fucking hell. couldn’t delete him fast enough.
― times 牛肉麵 (Autumn Almanac), Monday, 20 May 2019 01:16 (five years ago) link
matthewk: right there you’ve hit on the enormous gulf between what australians think they are and what they actually are
― times 牛肉麵 (Autumn Almanac), Monday, 20 May 2019 01:18 (five years ago) link
I think it's a bit of a cop-out to just say the Liberals won because Australians are racist bigots. I mean they are, but no more so than they were when they were voting in Labor governments, which has happened recently even in Queensland. A Labor victory was possible - Labor couldn't control what the Libs or the right-wing media did, but could control their own message and presentation of it. They got some of that strategy wrong.
― Zelda Zonk, Monday, 20 May 2019 01:40 (five years ago) link
not much of it, really. the eradication of Fairfax, and the massive rise in proportional Facebook use amongst geriatrics, are probably huuuge factors in this election and the surprise re: polling beforehand
― blokes you can't rust (sic), Monday, 20 May 2019 02:55 (five years ago) link
SHE'S NOT RUNNING
― blokes you can't rust (sic), Monday, 20 May 2019 05:22 (five years ago) link
albo
― times 牛肉麵 (Autumn Almanac), Monday, 20 May 2019 05:24 (five years ago) link
Penny 2025
― blokes you can't rust (sic), Monday, 20 May 2019 05:57 (five years ago) link
now you can't tell me this isn't inspirational from a prospective leader pic.twitter.com/6Z6mEwcvph— jeremy poxon (@JeremyPoxon) May 20, 2019
― blokes you can't rust (sic), Monday, 20 May 2019 06:22 (five years ago) link
When are they going to finish counting the votes?
― Popture, Monday, 20 May 2019 10:58 (five years ago) link
After mine arrives.
― tfw you are not easily whelmed (sic), Monday, 20 May 2019 11:07 (five years ago) link
Stephen Conroy: Australian's sent the message. They're not prepared to suffer further increases in electricity prices without a practical path forward. Labor has to step back from the @Greens and @GetUp led demonisation of coal.MORE: https://t.co/ZDLxzYd6Cq #amagenda pic.twitter.com/mNXHbeOJcO— Sky News Australia (@SkyNewsAust) May 21, 2019
This makes me so mad. Coal is a fucking furphy. The major driver for the increase in costs of electricity over the last 10 years has been the costs of the transmission and distribution networks which were either privatised or shined up to be privatises. Every dollar of capital that gets put into these networks gets a guaranteed return; so guess what, these networks have been over built and over capitalised. We have some of the highest network tariffs in the world whilst our wholesale prices for energy are middling, although even these are gamed by the oligopolistic gentailers (I know I used to work for one). Electricity retail competition is a sham, if labour wants to take a position on this they should advocate for nationalising the networks and consumer energy retail, move to wards a state owned version of the California model, or fuck it allow then to vertically integrate and regulate the hell out of them.
Coal is dead, it is more expensive than solar, more expensive than wind and it's not even reliable - watch what happens to the energy market when one of AGLs MacGen or LoyYang generators trips out ad compare it to what happens when the wind doesn't blow in a a small part of this very very big country.
That said labour really fucked up the whole Adani thing. Fisrt off they had quite a lot of room to manoeuvre because the Greens were nothing in this election. They could have left that flank unattended because the greens were going after liberal seats in Melbourne not Labour ones. Secondly they should have pushed the 'Green new Deal' angle and made it about mining - Put Matt Fucking Canavan on the back foot by establishing a Renewable materials infrastructure fund (or something) Invite the world to come and get their Cobalt and Graphite and Lithium and Silicon right here in Australia. Say to those miners in Queensland and the Hunter yes coal is ending but mining isn't - you and your children and your children's children will have a bright future because everything needed for the green revolution is under the ground in Australia.
Green Jobs should have been front and centre of a jobs and wages agenda.
It's really galling because their was some important stuff on the slate, restoring penalty rates to hops workers who got rorted. The Cancer care things was good, not least because there is a collection going on in my local cafe for someone who is has a lymphoma and is now getting hit with all these random medical bills she can ill afford. But that is not enough - we need to have a serious talk about medicare and the insurances system because guess what, it's fucked. I had surgery earlier in the year and I'm still getting random bills - it's like the surgeon just invited all his mates into the theatre whilst I was knocked out and told them to set they meters running. I'm all right but for many people there seems to be less and less service through medicare, insurance doesn't even let you cover everything - if you can afford it, and out of pocket costs can be crippling.
Basically Labour should go big or go home a lurch to the right isn't going to help, but it does need to build a big tent. It also needs a vision that inspires a ground game - Gould piece in the graun about Zali Stegals effort - labour needs that level of passion everywhere.
― American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Tuesday, 21 May 2019 02:11 (five years ago) link
I like this post but as a non-Australian this is a lot to contemplate
― Dan S, Tuesday, 21 May 2019 02:15 (five years ago) link
a boomer, Ed - such great insight
― an incoherent crustacean (MatthewK), Tuesday, 21 May 2019 03:05 (five years ago) link
A rhetorical shift to the right for Labor is pretty inevitable right now but it doesn't necessarily mean an awful lot with the election 3 years away. They're not going to be wheeling out any big policies now or in fact at any time I imagine given what happened in the election. They're just going to wait for things to go wrong for Morrison, which they almost certainly will.
― Zelda Zonk, Tuesday, 21 May 2019 03:08 (five years ago) link
It’s go big or go home. Any kind of nuance will get twisted on social media. By all account people were going to the polls with death taxes and shorten as a granny mugger thanks to Facebook so the messages has to be loud clear and unambiguous.
incrementalism and nuance just don’t work. Fixing Medicare for cancer suffers doesn’t work as a message - you have to go out and say ScoMo wants to make you pay every time you go to the doctor labour will make sure you never have. Labor get fucked every time on costsings and nuance and the coalition get to lie through their teeth and I think vision is the only way to override that.
― American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Tuesday, 21 May 2019 03:26 (five years ago) link