Seizing back control: The ILX lol brexit is how we're all gonna die thread.

I’m not sure there’s a convincing majority either in parliament or with the general public for anything.

I haven’t sorted out a postal vote so I guess I’m not voting (I blame this equally on my complete despair & my suspicion of postal voting in general ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ )

Turnout was 43% in 2014 and that was enough to spook Cameron into setting us on the course we're now on. It clearly makes a difference and it sure as hell will to the Tories.

Very hard to believe it won't be higher this time round with the debate so inflamed.

If a low turnout can't be used to critique the election results then i guess we'll be enjoying a lot more "will of the people" talk. You'd think whatever numbers the Brexit Party gets will represent more or less the full extent of hardcore Brexitry, but if the same can be applied to LD and Chukwalla votes combined then what conclusion could we draw? About an equal minority on both sides of the question and a majority that doesn't give that much of a fuck and are therefore unlikely to make it a deciding factor in any future general election

not liking this lib dem/brexit party binary. if only there was a party who wanted to end austerity, save the world and stand explicitly against brexit as a sort of cherry on top

Still think it's in the best interests of the Labour Party not to be holding the parcel when the music stops but i'm almost up for them becoming the official Remain party just to fuck off the Tony Robinsons and end this phony war

It would piss on a lot of disingenuous centrist bonfires, that much is true.

It's no phony war, tories will always be tories.

Turnout was 43% in 2014 and that was enough to spook Cameron into setting us on the course we're now on. It clearly makes a difference and it sure as hell will to the Tories.

― Matt DC, Monday, 13 May 2019 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

It was 35% for the UK (the 43% was the European average). UKIP came just on top ahead of Labour.

I don't have the breakdown by region but I'm willing to bet it was low in more disengaged -- more Brexity -- areas. Maybe the turnout in those will be higher as they vote for the Brexit party.

I think going from that to saying turnout at the GE will be as low as this (when it was near 70% last time) doesn't scan to me.

From what I've seen so far - the way journalists crowd around Farage and his Brexit Party 'rallies', the utter incomptence of much of the Remain forces (Change UK but also Tom Watson style wrecking) gives you a glimpse as to what a fucking nightmare a 2nd ref would be. And this after all the issues -- Nothern Ireland the most prominent of all -- have been given plenty of air time since that result.

Thank the fucking almighty we aren't doing this!

he's been a bit of a lost cause for a while (since "stoya come to athens"?) but crikey paul mason is a full zoomer

the fence sitting may not be helping labour but it's hurting them less than the alternatives. and the conservatives are in freefall

meanwhile, there's not been a vote in the commons for a month, nigel farage is claiming parliament is conspiring against the people, the government are running on fumes with no legislative timetable, sitting under no queen's speech without the prospect of one on the horizon. not particularly great for our representative democracy

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ttqlt5zvyfr3aej/File%2014-5-19%2C%2007%2044%2005.jpeg?raw=1

From https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/RP14-32/RP14-32.pdf

Turnout variations probably had more to do with where there were locals on the same day.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2e/UK_council_results_2014.svg

The high water mark for the UK EU elections is 38% in 2004, FWIW - it's been pretty solidly 32-38% except for 24% in 1999 for some reason.

Sir Angus Deaton report sounds otm, unfortunate name tho.

oh he's going to take five years to conduct a study that proves that there is growing inequality in the UK. Radical!

by the time he's finished that study we'll have already died, lol.

We are all equal in the grave, my son.

"the fence sitting may not be helping labour but it's hurting them less than the alternatives"

Take this one triangulation to The Green Party offering an alternative to the Lib Dems.

"a majority that doesn't give that much of a fuck"

it has seemed to me that this characterizes the posters on this thread & its antecedents too, no? I've seen lots of "brexit doesn't really matter" posts here.

I'm struggling to think of a single instance tbh.

xyzzzz__ had a claim a few months that none of this would matter at all because the scale of the changes necessary to combat climate apocalypse would produce a blitz spirit where everyone would row in together - at the time this was welcomed because we could do with a laugh.

Who said satire was dead? There is, of course, a difference between, "Brexit doesn't matter", and "Brexit is not the only thing that matters", though both are accompanied by ennui, nausea etc.

I get annoyed with the pessimistic forecasts, like have you left your fucking windmill for a sec + seen what it is like out *there* these days? 10 years of austerity has turned much of this country into a hellscape already. And I get annoyed with Brexit being more important than all the reforms that are going to be required to reverse this damage and a paralyzed parliament that seems to have stopped voting on bills and governing these days, "there are more important matters imo" is not quite "it doesn't matter".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-48229037

40 years of the rich steadily getting richer while the poor have been left to survive as best they can, tbf the EU probably did a sterling job of keeping the most marginalized alive, kind of. you can perhaps imagine my incredulity when FBPErs vehemently declare Brexit the greatest political disaster to have ever hit the UK.

i'll concede, before we go again, that Brexit will likely make this worse.

i'm sure there are a lot of people for who "hey this will make things worse" isn't the rallying call for political action you might think. it was essentially New Labour's only political message.

it has seemed to me that this characterizes the posters on this thread & its antecedents too, no? I've seen lots of "brexit doesn't really matter" posts here.

you can perhaps imagine my incredulity when FBPErs vehemently declare Brexit the greatest political disaster to have ever hit the UK.

Tbf I didn't care about brexit last time around and so didn't vote, and I still don't really care which is not to say it doesn't matter. P sure there is a lot of stuff I don't care about that matters.

xyzzzz__ had a claim a few months that none of this would matter at all because the scale of the changes necessary to combat climate apocalypse would produce a blitz spirit where everyone would row in together - at the time this was welcomed because we could do with a laugh.

― Andrew Farrell, Tuesday, 14 May 2019 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Now now no need to be so bitter

ok maybe I misjudged this one, thought I'd seen a number of posts saying eh it's not a big deal. also I don't understand satire. RIP

"10 years of austerity has turned much of this country into a hellscape"

It's not even Thunderdome, let alone Fury Road.

both references are wasted on me, but good for you if you don't see everyday poverty and despair in your area.

xp I admire your idealism! I just don't think it's remotely likely.

I'm at least glad no-one has claimed that I think everything's okay, or would be okay if Brexit was reversed. There's a Far Side cartoon with a kid on an airplane playing with a switch labelled "Wings Stay On / Wings Fall Off" - Brexit is the closest thing to that, one decision which would make things markedly worse*, so of course it'll be a focus.

*"Tories win massively in snap election" would I grant you be worse.

Anyway, healing touch:

A bus! It’s a real election now pic.twitter.com/xIfF284zzL

— Jessica Elgot (@jessicaelgot) May 13, 2019

A friend points out that it looks like a website where the CSS hasn't loaded.

are you picking this up on the doorstep @wesstreeting? dickhead. https://t.co/1flvmKrfNh

— joe (@cillanoir) May 14, 2019

Wes never hears anyone praising good ol' constructive ambiguity on the doorsteps, but it is holding up in the polls.

Not sure what you are talking re: idealism. I really don't care for that thanks. I have pointed out that Brexit is one of a number of issues, and yes I think climate change is a bigger issue and the EU isn't up to scratch at doing anything about it.

OTOH people here are downgrading austerity as a thing by saying it isn't like Mad fucking Max. So hellscape isn't 100k deaths due to austerity. Just because bin collection happens it's fine.

bin collection has never been good - dunno where you live like.

I know Spanish austerity has been tougher. Or is it Irish? #EUInTheBin

london!

dunno anyone who hasn't had problems with it, council cuts i guess.

You're right of course, xyzzzz__, optimism was the word I was looking for - optimism that anything short of the last trump will cause the UK to come up to scratch.

calz, that's Labour up 10 points on yesterday!

(but after the last GE everyone including myself is free to read everything into the tea leaves of every different poll)

That would be Ireland, where EU popularity is higher than it's been in the last 25 years?

I live in Lambeth and it's been mostly fine. xps

I’m in Camden and our Labour-led council is a lot better than Lambeth’s, chiefly because it’s actually building more social housing, as opposed to tearing down estates where residents are trying to save their social homes. I live on an estate where they want to build a few more ‘affordable’ homes without removing social homes and the consultation process doesn’t seem to be pure bullshit.

the bins run like a dream here. I've even got a brown garden waste bin for this summer for £30. But still do see some fucking harsh social engineering effects of austerity on my area. As in lots of vulnerable people being displaced by working families in small cramped flats. Some of the vulnerable people seen living homeless, others reported to be sofa surfing - some just disappeared off the map. That's just on layer of the despair wrought by these cunts in recent years. I've never seen some of single parents and kids looking as desperate and ill-fed since I was kid a kid in the 70's growing up in Deighton. It might not be Beyond Shitterdrome or whatevs, but it is fucking desperate times for a lot of ppl now. I'm saying this only a couple of years since my partner tried to top herself over PIP fuckery.

i'd like to think Ned was saying "however bad it is now it can get much worse"

yeah sure, but anybody's perspective on "how much worse" is strongly influenced by how bad things already are and there are *a lot* of people for who things are very very bad right now, and a lot more people who are constantly living with the stress of seeing very very bad things as an immediate possibility. and in those situations, scary words about a new darker shade of post-apocalypse just don't scare you that much.

not seen any Mad Max's including the remake (which I found unbearable after 5 mins) so apologies if I misunderstood your post Ned. But anyone trying to diminish the evil effects of austerity with any kind of "it's much worse in Azerbaijan" type equivalating can totally get fucked!

https://t.co/H9tjLncLqf

Richer Sounds, which has 53 stores, refuses to use zero-hours contracts and is one of the 14% of companies with a pay gap that favours women. Employee perks include access to company holiday homes around the world, It donates 15% of profits, to charity.

— m00 c0w (@Mrm00c0w) May 14, 2019

breaking news ..non-arsehole model of capitalism doing quite well.

must be a coincidence

also this: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/apr/06/the-support-never-stops-says-prisoner-who-works-at-timpsons