Seizing back control: The ILX lol brexit is how we're all gonna die thread.

I thought they'd at least wait for the next election campaign before they turned into New Labour in disguise.

CHUK are right, we do need a new way of doing politics in this country. Getting rid of about 90 odd % of the current parliament would be a good start.

getting rid of about 90 odd % of the current population would be a better start

take that thanos you fucking coward

I suppose they do have to pick an arsehole for shadow defence, someone with a disposition for brown-nosing the our boys. Or you get gammons saying the iranian pillocks are waiting to nuke us the sec Corbz gets elected. But repping for freedom to commit atrocities makes them as morally redundant as the fucking tories and they can get fucked.

fuck's sake

Idgi surely staining the reputation of the British army is the worst thing you can do, these people should be in favour of bringing back the death penalty just for soldiers who recreationally murder civilians and surrendering enemy combatants

QC twitter having a banner day again

Tweet says don’t scapegoat and then entirely blames groups for particular things.

Low wages aren’t caused entirely by bad employers - it’s more complex

Similarly financial crisis and bankers.

Just because they share blame doesn’t mean they should be lumped with all of it

— Adam Wagner (@AdamWagner1) May 10, 2019

absolute state of that nia griffiths tweet

that old chestnut "more complex" eh? If someone smacked that fool in the head with a hammer it might be a good demonstration of how some bad things have very simple and blindingly obvious causes that are not all "complex".

QC Twitter = a good reminder of why a murderous dictatorship of the proletariat might be a net positive for humanity.

It is complicated given the unknowable workings of divine providence

I need wise sage to explain to me the mysteries of poverty wages being paid by those whom are paying less corporation tax than 10 years ago .. the complexities of which can only be explained by the wise master from the golden windmill.

Re: all the “bankers are people too!” morons, this take remains evergreen

Corbyn's just playing a game of cunt chicken now to see what the soundest policy is he can come out with that pricks will still say is shit.

— Chrissy Hughton fan account (@tmanning24492) April 6, 2017

thanks hostile-environment policy, very cool!

At least five people have been killed in Jamaica since March last year after being deported from the UK by the Home Office, the Guardian has learned.

The killings took place after the men were sent back to Jamaica – which has one of the highest per capita murder rates in the world – despite strict rules prohibiting deportations to countries in which an individual’s life may be in danger.

The government does not routinely monitor what happens to people who have been deported. But through interviews and archive research, the Guardian has verified the deaths of the five men and been told by other returnees that they fear for their lives.

They should have listened to the standard home office advice to disguise their accents.

but n/w it's not like the UK commits violence against its citizens in the same manner the evil CCP does.

who needs gulags when you can just ship people who can't provide 10,000 pages of documentation to prove their citizenships off to other countries to be murdered

I said this the other day: much better odds of surviving Xi's gulags than UK's hostile environment.

Dude, it's still wrong. Let it go.

I didn't say it was you predictable clown.

The government is perfectly happy to deport people to active war zones, idk if Jamaica is going to present any qualms.

Just a friendly reminder that China routinely deports North Korean defectors back to their 'home' country. And no, I'm not defending the UK's hostile environment policy, which is no doubt about to get worse in the wake of Brexit.

Yeah, it's bad form to minimize the suffering of others in order to make your political opponents seem as evil as possible.

Still relevant:

However, the approach that has led to such problems for the Windrush generation – the policy often described as the "hostile environment" – still has overwhelming public support. In principle, seven in ten (71%) support a policy of requiring people to show documents proving their right to be in Britain in order to do things such as taking up employment, renting a flat, or opening a bank account. Just 15% oppose this. Asked about specific situations, 82% think people should have to prove their right to be in the UK before accepting a job, 79% before registering with a GP and 74% before renting a home.

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2018/04/27/where-public-stands-immigration

I listened to Jeremy Cunt on hardtalk the other week. His braindead spiel was that the great western democracies inhabit some moral high ground over the rest of uncivilisation, who all need to learn to respect US power and then everything will be alright.

It’s also bad form to come into a thread and act like a dick about citizens being deported to somewhere where they subsequently died because of their ethnic origin! I know your brand is being That Guy, but please do fuck off.

Oh, stop being a dick yourself. I'm literally just saying concentration camps are awful no need to make a big deal about it.

I don't see how this policy being popular on polls means anything. You don't do policy by polls.

Well, it does strongly imply that there's no real incentive to stop it, since little to no political gains are to be made as a result.

I don't see how this policy being popular on polls means anything. You don't do policy by polls.

This is almost touching in its naivety.

there was more of a popular outcry for the afro-Caribbean victims of hostile e than for many of the Asian/Africans deported iirc. For a muslim victim of it to become a social media cause-celebre they need to be a chess grandmaster or a maths genius or something.

xp was just rushing to make a NuLab joke yeah

Lol I know that is more of a wish than the reality. We would be in a different place but the focus group and distortions of public opinion by polling have gotten us to where we are today.

Politicians not leading or challenging is one of the reasons this country is the way it is.

Kind of unrelated, but there also tends to be significant support for the reintroduction of capital punishment in countries that have abolished it. I find that terrifying.

Oh, stop being a dick yourself. I'm literally just saying concentration camps are awful no need to make a big deal about it.

xp

i wd be far more agitated if there'd been a Brexit-style referendum where people had been allowed to vote for the reintroduction of capital punishment, yeah

but my understanding is that the received wisdom is there's nowhere close to a majority for that in the UK now

tbrr, i'm not sure it is a great idea to fold Windrush cases, where people who had a perfect legal right to stay in the UK, or asylum cases, where people had more of a contested right to stay but should be given indefinite leave to remain because of the dangers they face if they are deported, in with the five cases the Guardian is highlighting here.

aiui, none of the five contested the legal right to residency or claimed asylum. The argument their lawyer is making is that Jamaica was too dangerous, specifically for them, to be returned to.

It's an interesting argument and may have merit, tbh. Jamaica has a baseline level of danger but the threat in most of the cases here seems to be tied up with links to organised crime. The idea that a criminal past or criminal activity poses enough of a personal danger to the individual to effectively trigger a legal or moral claim to asylum is potentially worth pushing but i am not sure how helpful it is either to the Windrush investigation, or to the broader push against the hostile environment policy to tie either of those things up in the public's mind with these specific circumstances.

imo a big part of why there's support for the hostile environment policies as well is that if you're a regular citizen you're unlikely to ever be exposed to the realities of what life is like within detention centres - in fact most ppl I talk to don't even know that detention centres exist, really. They're in isolated areas and close to airports so G4S or whoever can quickly transport ppl onto flights

Every now and then there's a story about it in the media but I think that these are often so devoid of context (accusations of abuse in detention centre x) that unless you already know the topic it'll be so much background noise

calling them "detention centres" goes a good way towards establishing the nebulous "guilt" of those detained in the minds of the slice of the public already inclined to xenophobia

It's an interesting argument and may have merit, tbh. Jamaica has a baseline level of danger but the threat in most of the cases here seems to be tied up with links to organised crime. The idea that a criminal past or criminal activity poses enough of a personal danger to the individual to effectively trigger a legal or moral claim to asylum is potentially worth pushing but i am not sure how helpful it is either to the Windrush investigation, or to the broader push against the hostile environment policy to tie either of those things up in the public's mind with these specific circumstances.

I mean if we're talking purely in terms of -- optics -- probably the best cases to put forward are those of LGBTQ people, who also face deadly danger in retuning to Jamaica, and who have to "prove" their gayness in interrogations that have included questions like "what do you like about men's butts?"

Talking to ppl in general I do find the sympathy levels go down drastically as soon as the person involved has been in any kind of criminal activity - not just in the UK.

They're guilty of, er, having abandoned their home country.

xp

Talking to ppl in general I do find the sympathy levels go down drastically as soon as the person involved has been in any kind of criminal activity - not just in the UK.

Yeah, this seems like a more or less universal thing.

Noodle Vague, I actually find the term kinda creepily euphemistic. What those places really are is prisons, and that's how the people inside them see them - with the caveat that in prison you know when you're getting out.

There are possibly quite a few policies (Capital punishment is one yeah) that some ppl want back but politicians don't do it. There was never huge amounts of conversation about it.

What there was conversation about: open borders to EU citizens. Even so Europe before the ref was lower down as an issue.

So that leads to who was asking for deportations of the windrush generation and whether the numbers were ever that high? If this was stopped would it really impact on the Tory vote? It's only on the Home office doing this --> poll finds ppl ok with it after the fact. xps

the idea of neutrally measuring public opinion is absurd

The short answer is probably that the government committed to reducing all net migration to a completely arbitrary and unachievable figure without actually being able to influence it that much and then had to scrabble around deporting anyone they could get rid of so they only missed the target by 96% rather than 100% and looked like they were trying.

Yeah it's those ridiculous targets. The thing is I'm sure that many economic targets are missed and yet politicians often are able to talk around those. Targets in other areas are set and quietly dropped with minor political fall out.

I know those targets and Theresa May have a particular story attached to them..

Front cover of the Daily Mail today: big photo headline about Danny Baker, then across the top a story called "Is Meghan Turning Harry 50 Shades of Grey?" From the pictures it obviously *purports* to be about him wearing grey suits on the reg, but no fucking way is that not an intentional dog siren

Every woman adores a Fascist.

xp not a dog siren I can hear lol, what are they getting at?