The Colombia/Ecuador/Venezuela Mess or Let's Place Bets on How Long Before the U.S. Backs a Colombian War With Venezuela

Tell me if you need more

if any of these days of protests look like ending in a successful takeover of power maduro will be on his way to cuba quicker than you can grill an arepa

Russian meddling and influence started long before economic sanctions.

i am reminded of something fidel told allende with reference to the soviet union when he visited chile. something along the lines of "remember they need you as much as you need them". his point was that these relationships are a two-way street. even more so now that the former soviet union is now the much weaker, and less influential russian federation. a good example of this is the relationship between the u.s. and israel. the u.s. give massive support to israel, but you could never say that the government there just acts at the behest of the u.s. see the fractious relationship between obama and netanyahu for an example. symbiosis is the order of the day in these things. if maduro wants to go he'll go, ascribing everything bad to russia is manichean, and assuming actors in the global south are just puppets is condescending (this goes for guaido too).

4 billions in weapons from Russia during Chavez era + joint military exercises, onwards with the Bolivarian revolution!

xpost

Yeah I agree to a certain extent, it is true that sometimes interests just aligns. My two point are mainly that the notion that Maduro is a benevolent protector of Venezuela's sovereignty vs imperial interests are naive. The two way street relationships could exist with other more peaceful nations but there is a reason both Chavez and Maduro chose the Russia-China sorta coalition. It is not the EU or Canada that puts lots of journalists in prison. My other point is that as long Russia credits the Maduro regime and sell weapons, Maduro will stay in power. He has abused his military power to win the last elections and as of right now, it is the military who can do the necessary exchange of currency for to obtain primary needs, meaning a whole bunch of generals are getting rich of the disaster. Considering his past behavior, and Putin's past behavior, and how lamentable whatever Guaido tried to do yesterday, I don't see how or why the tyrants would change course right now.

It is not the EU or Canada that puts lots of journalists in prison

They kill them in Malta.

... and Slovakia.

And Northern Ireland.

Am I doing this right?

No.

Yes freedom of the press is equivalent in Austria and Venezuela. Absolutely. Bravo guys.

"It is not the EU or Canada that puts lots of journalists in prison."

Plenty of other people EU and Canada kill and mis-treat, if that's the road you wanna walk.

No-one mentioned Austria but, since you have, another wonderful EU country with Nazis in its government.

Heh, Venezuela is just ahead of Russia:

https://rsf.org/en/ranking

I mean, I'm not about to support Maduro but LOL @ the EU as some kind of exemplar of democracy and freedom - home of Orban, the FPO, the Law and Justice Party, Salvini...

And even with all these terrible people and parties, it remains a much freer place than Maduro's Venezuela. Post and pre-2018 economic sanctions. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

LOL @ the EU as some kind of exemplar of democracy and freedom

This is such a weird sentiment

The EU is a fairly decentralized entity that also happens to be home to exemplars of democracy and freedom? Which are ever relative terms to begin with? Because no country could ever live up to the kind of absolutist standards you no doubt have in mind, at least not in the foreseeable future?

How do you know what I have in mind?

I tell you what's weird, using Canada and the EU as a stick to beat Maduro!

Sorry I should have used Australia and Norway.

xp: It's not really what anybody here is doing, but it wouldn't be weird at all?

Seems pretty arbritrary to wheel out the EU as a comparison for Venezuela?

I mean,

And even with all these terrible people and parties, it remains a much freer place than Maduro's Venezuela. Post and pre-2018 economic sanctions. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Yah boo sucks or what?

The comparison was with China and Russia, as potential alliance partners.

In the context of my post I was speaking about mutual interests and how Russia and Venezuela's aligns as opposed to say, western nations.

And Canada?

Russia, China, the EU, Canada?

What are you even talking about.

Potential alliance partners, instead of Russia and China? Canada.

The EU is a fairly decentralized entity that also happens to be home to exemplars of democracy and freedom? Which are ever relative terms to begin with? Because no country could ever live up to the kind of absolutist standards you no doubt have in mind, at least not in the foreseeable future?

― pomenitul, Wednesday, 1 May 2019 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Well certain liberal standards are being used against Venezuela but the whole picture isn't being looked at.

Yanukovich, Karapetyan, Bouteflika, etc, highlight pretty clearly that a Russian line of credit and arms sales don’t guarantee much in the face of popular protests capable of shutting down a country. Guaido’s ongoing problem is that there isn’t enough support and the more he messes up with stunts like yesterday, the more that support evaporates.

Eh, his problem is that the military is staying loyal. And in a military dictatorship, that's a problem.

Bouteflika lasted two decades. I sincerely hope Maduro won't last half as long.

what stake do you have irl w/r/t uncritically supporting the worst sort of US interventionism? Did you support the contras in Nicaragua as well? Pro tip: anyone the US supports is bad, full stop.

See, sleeve, it reads like parody, but I get the feeling you mean it?

Can you give a single counter example where US involvement improved the baseline wellbeing of the population?

have heard good things about the Marshall PLan

You should stick to films, where you actually seem to have a clue

Marshall Plan was not intervention, it was cleanup

If it's intervention you want, something happened right before the Marshall Plan which I know my country was quite happy with.

And sorry for saying involvement when I meant i tervention

OK then let's talk about the last 65 years, come on

Balkan?

Nope, look up the Stasi Trg mines and follow the money

Good try though

Also that was not unilateral

Again, reads like parody.

Pot meet kettle

I was speaking about mutual interests and how Russia and Venezuela's aligns as opposed to say, western nations.

ah, now I understand why the uk is so closely allied with saudi arabia