Avengers: Infinity War

Yup. Thus that report etc. Linked article says the film cost around $350 million.

"Straightwashing"?

As in, The Man is clearly forcing an obviously gay character into a straight relationship.

Wait what ? There are jokes about his ass. From guys. And him.

Btw it wasn’t the mess I expected and I kinda liked it. Obviously plenty of ott and wtf moments but it’s part of the package !

Oh sorry I read the straightwasing argument too quickly!

While I thought the Thor stuff was maaaaaybe not as funny as it thought it was, I do absolutely love how they kept him like that for the whole film. No magic "restore me to my former glory!" moment, the closest he gets is braiding his beard.

Yeah Thor is the greatest one in this. Including the final scene !

I mesn HIS final scene

Just got back. I really wanted to like this more, but all of the time travel stuff was so confusing and inconsistent. Plus, they had multiple scenes where they were basically saying that OTHER time travel movies were bullshit, which was pretty funny considering how little this made sense. Like what was the whole conversation with the Ancient One about? Also, the rules around the infinity stones were incoherent.

As always, the dialogue was snappy, and the acting was great. Plenty of emotional scenes interspersed with good humor.

Think they were trying to posit that you can't go back in time and change the recent past (ie Back to the Future) as it's already happened and so what happens instead is that you just create a new multiverse timeline.

So 2014 Thanos getting snapped won't have altered the events of Infinity War

it seems the ancient one decided that since dr strange was 'meant to be the best of us', the mistake she realizes she herself might have made was something to do with not having done as the hulk asked, or in thinking that it would always be wrong to not protect the time stone (since she is told dr strange gave it up to the avengers) but i dunno, in the moment her sudden reversal seemed confusing.

dr strange insists to stark that it would be fatal to reveal his knowledge of their improbable future success, but he conspicuously tips him what to do during the final battle, so i figure the MCU writers would have no trouble invoking that or who knows what other technicalities to gin up all manner of endless narrative rebooting

Nerd sites that have thought about this more than I have posited that it's (no surprise) a complicated, contradictory mix of time travel BS. Changing the past won't change the future, because the future has already happened and is therefore the past (or something like that) so it instead branches off a different timeline that can at the very least be cut short (or something). But having 2014 Thanos head into the future sort of messes with that more than a bit, because if 2014 Thanos dies in the future, then he never would have gotten the stones, etc. And old Captain America means, if he stuck around, then he must have existed for a time in a world with two Captain Americas (maybe he did and that explains how he could just get married and live a life rather than fight evil) but then he'd be riding a totally different timeline back to the Endgame present, and what happened to that other Captain America. And ... yeah. There would still have to be a mess of a tangle of timelines. Best not to think about it. I took all the time travel movie references be self-aware gags, that it can never make sense, no matter how much you try to work it out.

Some talk about Fat Thor here: https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2019/04/avengers-endgame-fat-thor-ptsd-jokes-controversy

The only sudden reversal that I thought was handled poorly was, again, Hawkeye. Who went from member of the crew to broken dark murdering sword for hire for years and then right back to his old quipping self again. But, also again, I didn't want more Hawkeye, so I figured, fine.

xpost That was interesting. But I think if you introduce a character as sort of a platonic ideal of buff handsomeness - who wouldn't feel body shamed by that dude? - it's fair game to mine the opposite for jokes. If there was any tonal inconsistency it was in the idea that Thor (or Captain America or Hulk or whomever) really need to bother with the concept of too many or too few calories. If they did they'd have to be fed like animals at the zoo. I think they eat for the novelty or just to be social; Thor had a gut but he was no less Thor-y in strength and powers. Nor did he feel bad about being slovenly! That's why it's cool he stayed that way.

I enjoyed this movie

The time travel was sensible IMO. if time travel were real neither BTTF or Terminator rules would likely apply, no Butterfly Effect. Just a divergent timeline that might even cease to exist after quantum realm departed. Schrodinger's timeline? Idk

The wife and I are going back and forth about whether the opening from the first Guardians of the Galaxy or the elevator from Winter Soldier is more fundamental. And now I feel a little bad for Dark World.

Saw this. Thoughts:

-These movies cost untold jillions of dollars and they still mostly look like ass, apart from the occasional neat shot or design.
-Over the last few movies it seems the MCU has added “Rural Farmhouse” to its repertoire of locations (others include: Parking Structure, Military Base, “New York”, Darkly Lit Rusty Spaceship and Green Screen Planet). Progress?
-The “time-travel thru the MCU’s greatest hits” stuff was a bit much for a franchise that is already self-referential enough as it is. I liked the callback to the elevator scene in The Winter Soldier, though, that was cute.
-All the big tear-jerky emotional moments totally worked on me, as I am a human with a limbic system.
-Cap coming in with Thor’s hammer was genuinely thrilling fan service wankery of the highest caliber.
-The visual of a somber funeral with a big green guy, a bunch of aliens and a raccoon sprinkled in among the attendees...lol
-Fat Thor was fun

These movies cost untold jillions of dollars and they still mostly look like ass

^^this is what bothers me most about these movies. so generic & ugly

anyone seriously concerned about fat shaming in this movie can fuck right off. fat thor smites ass.

where was everyone last time out when Rocket was fat-shaming Quill?

These movies cost untold jillions of dollars and they still mostly look like ass

I actually watched Infinity War this morning and this jumped out at me too. these movies look like shit.

anyone seriously concerned about fat shaming in this movie can fuck right off. fat thor smites ass.

where was everyone last time out when Rocket was fat-shaming Quill?

having only seen Infinity War those jokes jumped out at me as being particularly hacky and lame, to a degree beyond the Whedonesque patter I'd forgotten about and find so wearing. Haven't seen/won't see the new one but I can understand ppl taking exception to Fat Thor jokes in conjunction with the evocation of PTSD - pick a lane, basically.

re: looking like shit, one thing that really bothered me was the weightlessness of the violence - whenever a character or nameless rando gets stabbed or impaled with a staff or whatever, there's no heft to the movement. the lack of tactility drains the violence of impact. which makes these better kids' movies but worse movies.

(tbc I'm not making the "adults can't/shouldn't enjoy these" argument I've seen ppl make in a rush to slam the MCU; that said, anyone who claims these movies aren't for kids due to their violence or psychological complexity - arguments I've also seen made - is full of shit. a good friend has a 6-year-old daughter who's an MCU fanatic and I'm sure has already seen the new one twice.)

The scene with ancient one Tilda was less complicated than I think people are making it — she’s not going to give up the rock, as she’s the protector. But the reveal that Strange gave it up, when he’s the best sorcerer supreme, indicates that there is a bigger plan at stake that Banner is acting out. So she’s handing it over with the knowledge that Strange knew what was doing, maybe even indicating she understands he’s acting on a plan that’s evaluated all possible futures. The reversal is just her realizing there’s a plan she’s not privy to, that was hatched by someone she’ll trust

Strange not revealing too much to Stark is emotional — the guy’s one stipulation on time travel is that his family remains intact. Not telling him that it hinges on his own life is a way to insure he makes the right choice when all the stakes were in play. If the play was “we’ll win, but you die” then maybe Iron Man just stays with his family instead of sacrificing for the greater good

feel like these plot beats were well telegraphed and i’m not sure what was missed, although I notably miss a lot on first viewings at times

These movies cost untold jillions of dollars and they still mostly look like ass

I think their set and visual design is bad/boring, but the Russos are really good at action blocking considering the sheer scale they're working with. You always know where the characters are in relation to one another, and what they're doing - which is hard to do with such a huge cast who are obvs not shooting these big setpieces at the same time.

I mean, I saw a Transformer movie recently and... yikes. Everything was shot way too close, also blue and teal everything which makes it hard to see what the hell is going on at any given moment. Overuse of colour grading also a problem I have with the recent DC movies.

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2019/04/avengers-endgame-fat-thor-ptsd-jokes-controversy

I liked this piece which argues that Thor's new look is less about weight than about depression taking away the ability to take care of yourself. It's why it's important that Thor doesn't get trim again at the end, but he does stop drinking and cleans himself up.

It's a nice contrast to Captain America, who starts shaving again because he wants to move on, even when he knows he can't, or Banner embracing his Hulk side as he's gotten progressively less angry over time. These scenes that focus on characters' appearances and how they relate to their emotional state feels very contemporary I think - makes me wonder if the writers have been watching the new Queer Eye.

And then there's Captain Marvel, who gets a haircut likely just because it looks hot. And why not? I wish she had had it in the CM movie.

ugh typos galore in my previous post before that one: Transformers*, and "blue and orange" or "orange and teal". need more sleep.

no it’s fine, you only saw one Transformer movie

I think their set and visual design is bad/boring, but the Russos are really good at action blocking considering the sheer scale they're working with. You always know where the characters are in relation to one another, and what they're doing - which is hard to do with such a huge cast who are obvs not shooting these big setpieces at the same time.

Yeah that’s true, but most of the Marvel movies so far have been pretty good about the action not getting too cluttery or confusing, so the Russo’s adhering to that isn’t very impressive by itself. The “chaos cinema” trend in action blockbusters that reached its peak in the Bay Transformers movies has largely (though not entirely) died down anyway.

re: looking like shit, one thing that really bothered me was the weightlessness of the violence - whenever a character or nameless rando gets stabbed or impaled with a staff or whatever, there's no heft to the movement. the lack of tactility drains the violence of impact. which makes these better kids' movies but worse movies.

OTM. I think that’s why producers and studios love CGI so much. It makes everything less visceral and upsetting, guaranteeing that more people can watch it. Also easier to change things in post-production.

Man, I miss that great 80s CGI, that Rambo / Commando shit.

Another update from Deadline:

The mindblowing mushrooming of Avengers: Endgame‘s box office weekend continues with early AM estimates for the Disney/Marvel pic showing easily an estimated $111.4M record for the day, that’s 30% down from Friday’s record $158.3M. This puts the Anthony and Joe Russo directed film at an extraordinary $358.5M. This numbers could change in a few hours as late night money is counted.

Note, Saturday is technically higher than Friday, if you back out the record $60M Thursday night previews. That would put Friday at $98.3M, and Saturday’s ticket sales at a 14% surge.

Man, I miss that great 80s CGI, that Rambo / Commando shit.

yet somehow they still managed to deliver lightweight violence. it’s a real testament to practical craft.

Okay I give up on who is trolling who here

80s Avenger movie woulda been interesting

Dolph Lundgren is....Thor

Is it weird that Tony Stark throws out a Lebowski reference in a franchise where Jeff Bridges played an Iron Man villain?

no

that's just how everything is now

About as weird as they reference Hot Tub Time Machine, which featured Sebastian Stan.

I'm not I hope trolling, just reminding that Bourne-style 'realistic' violence is at best a parallel stream to the way it's been depicted for at least 30 years - to mention nothing of westerns.

The issue wasn’t “realism” it was the inherent difference in impact between action that is filmed in front of a camera and that which is animated or (or heavily augmented by digital animation).

Also Rambo and Commando were R-rated movies with tons of squibs and bone crunching and throat rips and all that shit. Bad examples to use to make your point!

You’re helping make the point, though. “Visceral and upsetting” gets you a different rating.

I want a more realistic looking decapitation of a purple Titanian.

Ok, I’m confused now.

This one had bloody throat slitting, that's pretty violent. But yeah, this would have been something else if the battle scenes were like those in Starship Troopers or something. MCU still mostly cartoon violence, lots of hitting and punching, a few bloody noses, but for all the occasional eye-gouging or stabbing or decapitation, very little blood let alone serious aftermath.

Oh man. I'm a massive Marvel comics geek and adored the MCU so far. Of course I have lesser favourites, but I still find Iron Man 2, which ranks at the bottom of my list, an enjoyable ride.
I would have so loved to have utterly loved Endgame and to have it as the highlight of the saga.

And for the most part, I did love it.

But the one thing I really didn't love... is unfortunately a very critical part of the plot: the needlessly messy and downright sad reset of the snap.

The fact that 50% of all life in the MCU now suddeny finds itself at a 5-year difference with the other half.

It is terrible to think of. Just picture yourself at either end of a sudden 5-year gap with half of everybody and everything you know.

People will have moved on, found new partners, survivors might have killed themselves over their loss or have died of natural causes.
The returned people may have missed 5 years of their children's lives, or surviving parents suddenly have to pick up the care for their kid again at a 5-year older age.
And what about employment? So you've been gone for 5 years, can you go back to your old job the next workday?
What about school? And yes, how will we see that reflected in Peter Parker's class?
Where will people re-appear? What about vanished people in weird places/positions such as the pilot of the helicopter we saw crashing in Infinity War's post-credits scene?

The more I think about it, the more confused and saddened I get. In the comics, the gauntlet is used a day after the snap to have everything be "exactly as it was" - I would have vastly preferred that outcome. They pressed the point that the timeline had to happen for the lead-up history to occur, but as the stones defined the rules of the galaxy, they could have simply made the gauntlet powerful enough to overrule the natural laws.
I find it a real big shame that they didn't.

I hope they will pick this up well in a future movie but I'm afraid the only ways I can see this go is either going in to the sad side of the sudden age differences, or laughing it off by having Spider-Man: Far From Home start with the kids in math class successfully having calculated their odds for all having vanished together and still being in the same year.

Just injured my brain imagining the snapped resenting the unsnapped and moaning about "unsnapped privilege"

Imagine millions and millions of people returning to massive memorials in their name that people have been mourning at for years. Imagine the trauma of feeling yourself slowly turn to dust then coming back is far as you can tell mere seconds later to a world in a state of epic devastation and disrepair.

fwiw I thought Buffy handled back from the dead Buffy really well.

christ what a fuckin mess this was huh

will read thread later but yknow that had to be said

nothing worked but it was some things happening one after another with celebrities so theres that

Dolph Lundgren is....Thor

the Ryan Reynolds of the ‘80s