yeah putting the president on trial is not going to *gain* him any votes, his base will be sufficiently demagogued into turning out no matter what congress does
― d'ILM for Murder (Hadrian VIII), Wednesday, 24 April 2019 16:49 (five years ago) link
i think Trump is really cornered and isolated this time for certain
― omar little, Wednesday, 24 April 2019 16:50 (five years ago) link
this seems a perfectly valid reason to pursue it
not quite. it is perfectly valid reason to analyze the likely political consequences, and if your analysis is on balance neutral-to-favorable, that is when you pursue it. politics sometimes honors noble failures, but it punishes them just the same.
― A is for (Aimless), Wednesday, 24 April 2019 16:51 (five years ago) link
well of course I don't mean politics for the sake of politics. I mean impeachment has political advantages above and apart from "justice"
― d'ILM for Murder (Hadrian VIII), Wednesday, 24 April 2019 16:59 (five years ago) link
how is it not a good political move to get every single Republican Congressman on the record saying "I support this traitorous criminal idiot. I think he rocks, actually."
― frogbs, Wednesday, 24 April 2019 17:34 (five years ago) link
it is a good political move
― d'ILM for Murder (Hadrian VIII), Wednesday, 24 April 2019 17:36 (five years ago) link
Democratic politicians like to imagine there's a significant portion of the electorate that's turned off by any action not done in the spirit of bipartisan hand holding
― Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Wednesday, 24 April 2019 17:37 (five years ago) link
Trump's behaviour just seems to be getting even worse daily despite theissue of this being brought up and presumably being prevalent at least as a pursuable possibility.I'm hearing that there is inevitably going to be a period of further investigation since taht's what hearings would amount to so starting the process seems to be necessary.
But on the other hand some possibility of him being reelected would only mean he would feel absolutely justified in any further action he took. Just hoping also that any further exposure of his crimes might make that reelection unlikely.& at what point doe she cease to be a useful asset because he's shown himself up so badly. Would think that even Putin might pull the plug once he'd outlived usefullness. So he'd be alone trying to get reelected and only have a dimished GOP supporting him.
― Stevolende, Wednesday, 24 April 2019 17:41 (five years ago) link
on the record saying "I support this traitorous criminal idiot. I think he rocks, actually."
Good luck with that. What they will say irl is how "troubled" they were, but that the evidence blah blah blah. Do you honestly believe these people got where they are not knowing how to spin their vote to match the leanings of their constituency?
Voting to impeach and to convict is GREAT politics for winning your vote, because you already are sold on Trump being a "traitorous criminal idiot". But in order for the politics to align with you, a majority of voters need to be sold on that conviction. If they aren't, then going gung-ho, all-in for impeachment is playing with fire, politically. Like I said, a noble failure still fails and will be punished, not rewarded, leaving you worse off, not better.
― A is for (Aimless), Wednesday, 24 April 2019 18:01 (five years ago) link
HRC has spoken! "caution"
and she's an expert
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 24 April 2019 18:25 (five years ago) link
this is a politics thread morbs
― american bradass (BradNelson), Wednesday, 24 April 2019 18:28 (five years ago) link
Morbs, we all know caution is not in your emotional vocabulary.
― A is for (Aimless), Wednesday, 24 April 2019 18:30 (five years ago) link
Morbs you made it, like, three days
― d'ILM for Murder (Hadrian VIII), Wednesday, 24 April 2019 18:53 (five years ago) link
that was a driveby
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 24 April 2019 18:55 (five years ago) link
It was a voluntary, impromptu, and self-imposed restriction, so there was never a reason to think it would last any longer than the reaction that prompted it.
― A is for (Aimless), Wednesday, 24 April 2019 18:55 (five years ago) link
join me in the Tootsie thread
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 24 April 2019 18:56 (five years ago) link
I am boycotting all the Dabney Coleman theads
― d'ILM for Murder (Hadrian VIII), Wednesday, 24 April 2019 19:02 (five years ago) link
a strange game
― difficult listening hour, Wednesday, 24 April 2019 19:02 (five years ago) link
at some point enough is enough
let's all talk about Santino Fontana in here now that Morbs is gone
― blokes you can't rust (sic), Wednesday, 24 April 2019 19:17 (five years ago) link
― difficult listening hour, Wednesday, April 24, 2019 12:02 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
lmao
― american bradass (BradNelson), Wednesday, 24 April 2019 20:20 (five years ago) link
Investigative hearings should proceed, so that there is a constant dribble of damning news on Trump. I'd prefer that it focus on the violations of the emoluments clause, as I think corruption will hit much harder with the electorate than
I would much rather see the Democratic caucus pass sweeping Medicare for all and climate legislation, and have this be the central theme of the remainder of this Congress. Give the Democratic presidential and Senate candidates something to run on.
― Insert bad pun (Sanpaku), Wednesday, 24 April 2019 21:06 (five years ago) link
^ corruption will hit much harder with the electorate than the clear obstruction of justice in the Russia investigation.
― Insert bad pun (Sanpaku), Wednesday, 24 April 2019 21:07 (five years ago) link
are we discussing impeachment in the Tootsie thread or
― recriminations from the nitpicking woke (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 24 April 2019 21:12 (five years ago) link
So its back again?
I don't understand how this is supposed to go anywhere
― anvil, Wednesday, 25 September 2019 12:00 (four years ago) link
it is a moral and legal imperative
and you know, I wd've impeached every fucking president ive lived through
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 25 September 2019 12:04 (four years ago) link
I can see the rationale if the purpose is gumming up the works, but otherwise I don't get where this is supposed to end up
and if there was any seriousness to impeachment why not just do it on emoluments instead
― anvil, Wednesday, 25 September 2019 12:05 (four years ago) link
too complex to sell to the moronic public
as this may be
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 25 September 2019 12:08 (four years ago) link
it's to force a drumbeat of bad news about trump for months in the run-up to the electionit's to force republicans to defend him and shrink their base to only die-hard trumpers in the run-up to the electionit's to actually discover evidence of criminal activity and hold criminals to accountit's to finish mueller's jobp sure there are some other good reasons too
― Li'l Brexit (Tracer Hand), Wednesday, 25 September 2019 12:10 (four years ago) link
as well you should have because they are all war criminals
― Is it true the star Beetle Juice is going to explode in 2012 (bizarro gazzara), Wednesday, 25 September 2019 12:12 (four years ago) link
You know who wouldn't handwring and have internal debates for months and months over whether to impeach? Republicans. And yet somehow "the American public" doesn't hold their "partisan witch hunts" against them.
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Wednesday, 25 September 2019 12:18 (four years ago) link
What are its chances in the senate?
Why this over emoluments?
"they're going after him for the exact same thing Hillary did"
― anvil, Wednesday, 25 September 2019 12:19 (four years ago) link
I don't get where this is supposed to end up
the president of the united states is a criminal who leverages his office to enrich himself and go after his political enemies. he effectively got away with this in the 2016 election and is now doing it again, in plain view, even admitting to it on live TV. forget the political calculations for a minute - you impeach because it's objectively the right thing to do.
― frogbs, Wednesday, 25 September 2019 12:19 (four years ago) link
very fine reasons on both sides
― nashwan, Wednesday, 25 September 2019 12:20 (four years ago) link
you impeach because it's objectively the right thing to do.
Will he be removed from office? How likely, scale of 1-10
― anvil, Wednesday, 25 September 2019 12:21 (four years ago) link
Will Clinton be removed from office? Prob not so hey let's just forget the whole thing
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Wednesday, 25 September 2019 12:23 (four years ago) link
Well if he's not going to be removed from office then we have to ask what the purpose is? (if its to gum up the works I'm fine with that, but otherwise what is the actual goal here?).
And also if the goal really is to remove him from office, is this Ukraine thing the most reliable thing to get him on?
― anvil, Wednesday, 25 September 2019 12:28 (four years ago) link
probably about a 2? again, the idea isn't so much removing him from an office (because we live with a stupidly broken political system) as it is exposing all his crimes, keeping his hands tied, and forcing every elected official to either vote for removal or endorse the corruption
― frogbs, Wednesday, 25 September 2019 12:28 (four years ago) link
it's to emphasize HE'S A CROOK for the next year, wtf is so difficult?
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 25 September 2019 12:29 (four years ago) link
anvil - succeeding in removing him from office via the actual mechanism of impeachment is very unlikely - and so far down the list of reasons to impeach i didn't bother mentioning
― Li'l Brexit (Tracer Hand), Wednesday, 25 September 2019 12:29 (four years ago) link
do you think the other reasons aren't good reasons?
― Li'l Brexit (Tracer Hand), Wednesday, 25 September 2019 12:30 (four years ago) link
If he's impeached, it fails, his base is energized further and he gets re-elected - this seems a reasonably likely scenario? Would want at least some expectation of success before heading down this road - so seesms reasonable to ask "will this actually work?"
― anvil, Wednesday, 25 September 2019 12:31 (four years ago) link
a failed impeachment doesn't specifically emphasize this
Not impeaching looks like tacit approval or acceptance that this is normal now.what I also want to see from impeachment is Republican senators having to stake their careers on the Trump project even further than they already have
― mfktz (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Wednesday, 25 September 2019 12:33 (four years ago) link
More than anything in the near term, I hope this ruins Biden's run for nominee.In the long view, good for them. You want to sort of try and make the office of president a little bit unattractive to supervillains? Let's go back to the days these guys had a little finesse, you know?
― maffew12, Wednesday, 25 September 2019 12:34 (four years ago) link
Does it make it harder or easier to credibly impeach again if (when) he commits a more serious crime, god forbid he wins a second term?
― ShariVari, Wednesday, 25 September 2019 12:35 (four years ago) link
Would want at least some expectation of success before heading down this road - so seesms reasonable to ask "will this actually work?"Who would
― now let's play big lunch take little lunch (sic), Wednesday, 25 September 2019 12:36 (four years ago) link
that's a risk that has to be taken imofrom the start, the message will be: trump's friends enabled him then, and they're covering up for him now. a failure to convict in the senate will prove their corruption. i wouldn't be surprised if articles of impeachment actually pass the house after all the creepy crawlies come out.
― Li'l Brexit (Tracer Hand), Wednesday, 25 September 2019 12:36 (four years ago) link
if the impeachment fails it will visibly, publicly, fail because the system is visibly, publicly, corrupt and will not exonerate Trump in the minds of anybody beyond his existing faithful.
― Fox Pithole Britain (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 25 September 2019 12:37 (four years ago) link
So then isn't emoluments a much safer vehicle? This seems flimsy and destined for failure
― anvil, Wednesday, 25 September 2019 12:38 (four years ago) link