Is the Guardian worse than it used to be?

That Guardian write-up is the usual libs getting pissy and insecure but I don't like the terms by which Pete Buttigeig praises it. I don't understand what it means for Ulysses to be democratic. Having said that I'm impressed by that list (Palace Walk) that you feel he has actually read it and it's def not fucking signalling.

Ulysses is democratic in that Joyce was the least "celebrating ubermenschen"y of all the Modernists who wrote in English maybe

i think the 'middle class guy' bit is weirder. I think ulysses-as-democratic-book is fairly well-established (eg it's John Carey's take - ie human or fleshy/social/demotic contra machine/elitism/intellectualism).

the sunny weather, day off, fact I've got to pop into the butcher's now, and prospect of booze this evening is making me want to dip into ulysses now so thread delivers.

fine tang of faintly scented urine for the win

^ kidneys on the way.

Liver on the way out.

People who say nobody has read Ulysses just because they didn't are very irritating. I'm going to read it again (again) just to spite them.

I mean fair enough I stopped at ineluctable modality of the visible first time through but you don't just give up goddamnit.

yes i never got very far every time i tried but that's mainly bcz stephen dedalus is such a dick, i am a very judgy gemini w/no cultural stamina and not finishing books is kind of my superpower, vote mark s

I'd like to think calling the Odyssey "not exactly a beach read" was a fun meta gag but I'm guessing it's just a smug pretence of incuriosity

I guess you can't fall back on "latte-sipping croissant muncher" when your job is brand strategising

It’s not even the incuriosity that mildly irritated me, it’s the smug dismissal of anything other than incuriosity.

"books are jerks" is a terrible pose to strike if you're over 13, yep

That's no way to talk about Socrates.

palace walk's a v good shout and ulysses is ulysses but the little gawd-help-us prince at #3 right above the odyssey is extremely offensive

guardian piece obv beneath contempt

Filing that piece under "Literary Criticism" is bold, for sure.

I don't think it was beneath contempt fwiw - my mild irritation was more to do with the fact that I think Mahdawi's right about Assange and Weinstein and I'd prefer the piece to have thought that through, rather than dissolve into slagging off other public figures who have the temerity to talk about books.

"lol books are for dorks...

Since you're here, we've got a favour to ask..."

(xp NB correct about Raab also)

I'd prefer the piece to have thought that through, rather than dissolve into slagging off other public figures who have the temerity to talk about books.

but it didn't, so here we are

Fair enough - I suppose my contempt runs deeper than yours :)

yes i never got very far every time i tried but that's mainly bcz stephen dedalus is such a dick, i am a very judgy gemini w/no cultural stamina and not finishing books is kind of my superpower, vote mark s

Tim is correct. This paragraph is disgusting:

Pete Buttigieg, the Democrat who launched his US presidential run on Monday, has also used books to build his brand. He recently shared his 10 desert-island titles, which made for incredibly pretentious reading. He claims two of his faves are The Odyssey by Homer (not exactly a beach read) and James Joyce’s Ulysses. The latter also happens to be a favourite of Jeremy Corbyn and the most insufferable person you knew at university.

the most insufferable person i knew that university used to write shit like this tbf

Lol I just read the piece and it reads as though it’s an oral transcript of the author ranting until she gets yanked off stage left by a cane

insufferable is one of those complaints where as soon as its levelled at someone you have the strong suspicion they are preferable to the complainer

The bit of the Ulysses appreciation I was struggling with was the "a story about what it is to be human", its a bit lazy to say this is a democratic notion (?), and thought he just emphasized democratic because he is a politician. Then again I shouldn't talk, I would only return to the odd chapter myself, and the last chapter always.

Bernie ftw.

if you were going to take 10 books to a desert-island i'd think you'd want complex dense works that repaid numerous readings bc you're abandoned on an island and you're not getting any new books.

like eg the fuck washing a hat thread

Mordy otm

Lead article on front page right now is basically an advert for change UK with no actual news content.

i bet it didn't cost that much either.

is marina hyde for real

The Guardian front page, Wednesday 15 May 2019: Mordaunt to give veterans amnesty for battle crimes pic.twitter.com/IIvuk3n8rk

— The Guardian (@guardian) May 14, 2019

wth is a battle crime

"battle crimes" indeed.

there was a program about the menace of US big pharma/the opioid epidemic on R4 last night and guess who ran one of them pseudo-articles with dangerous advertising bluster disguised as an opinion piece for Purdue Pharma. much much worse than they used to be.

tbh I'm presuming it was for Purdue Pharma cos that's mainly who they were talking about, but if it was some other US big pharma -quelle difference.

I also note that the piece says NI would be exempted - so the Guardian just casually betting that its readers won’t care about war crimes committed against Iraqis and Afghans then. Cool!

surely they can come up with some better euphemism than ‘battle crimes’ ffs, they’re getting a much lower class of spin doctor in whitehall nowadays

Lol battle crimes

Combat... mischief

Armed Unpleasantness

collateral comeuppances

The BBC uses the phrase "actions on the battlefield abroad" which seems even more mealy-mouthed if anything, feels like the Guardian has at least taken care to put the word 'crimes' in there. I assume that war crimes committed in prisons, among civilian populations etc are excluded here, let me consult my Ladybird Book of Atrocities.

"shooting non-christians" would appear clean enough

i dunno, our brave boys have some form in extrajudicially executing christians too tbf

"extracurricular tomfoolery" = killing Iraqi civilians 'fer the lark.

xp yes but NI is to be exempt from

wait a sec

non-voters, thats it.

Pretty sure that, for the Johnny Mercers of this world, this is mostly about NI. After all, Iraqis Afghans, the Irish, what's the difference?