2020 Democratic presidential primary

dad of the year

I swear some of these motherfuckers put less thought into deciding whether to run for president than I put into deciding which kind of bagel to order at the coffee shop in the morning.

my top 2 bagel options were out of stock when i went to the coffee shop this morning.

and that's when i decided i had to run for president of the united states

NEVER AGAIN

Bagels 4 Beto

BUTTIGIEG on free college: Americans who have a college degree earn more than Americans who don't. As a progressive, I have a hard time getting my head around the idea a majority who earn less because they didn't go to college subsidize a minority who earn more because they did

— Stephanie Murray (@StephMurr_Jour) April 3, 2019

I've heard some variant of this argument before and it always strikes me as dumb

i have decided that buttigieg in fact Sucks

im on the warren wagon btw choo choo

That's a weird argument tbh. For one. thing, that's not really how a progressive tax system would work, I don't think. (Those who earn more do pay more.) I am not sold on free, as opposed to affordable, uni, though, when it is neither required nor standardized. 2xp

also, and I am far from the first to point this out, people who didn't go to college and earn less have kids who might want to go to college!

in scotland this is a debate. right now for undergrad you have tuition-free university for student's coming from the scottish school system (there are some fees for post-grad i think). the previous system was affordable university tuition (i owed something like 4000 pounds after finishing a four year undergrad degree), which you didn't pay until you graduated, and only paid after earning a certain minimum income, was extracted directly from payroll, and had a reasonable interest rate. the criticism from "the left" is that abolishing fees has not widened access to university in any meaningful way (it's still mainly middle-class kids going to uni) and has caused funding issues in higher education including colleges (community college equivalent) with more working class student demographics

but if you object to free college and your answer isn't affordable college then gtfo

yeah this is just the kind of empty nonstarter policy answer i expect from "pragmatic" centrist types who cloak themselves vaguely in progressive language. there's no class analysis, no recognition that skyrocketing tuition and debt loads reinforce a haves-and-have-nots model of society, roll back the clock on access to education, etc. if it was paired with some brilliant scheme to force tuition back down, then maybe, MAYBE there'd be a conversation.

I could see this more as an argument against college loan debt forgiveness than free college, personally I would love if student debt was forgiven because my wife and I have a shitload of it but it does seem like the kind of thing that would benefit the middle class disproportionately compared to the poor

that buttigieg argument is also an argument against public funding for parks and the arts and the SEC and everything else the government pays for that benefits the rich more than the poor.

it's also tactically unsound, like pretty much all centrist attempts to meet the right half way by means testing a benefit.

But he read Joyce so it all evens out

I don't quite understand that Butt quote. I've never heard this argument before. I can kind of interpret it in my own way, that a lot of well paying jobs technically don't need higher education expertise but discriminately only hire people with college degrees. I have a liberal arts degree from a good school that has never been applicable to any of my nice jobs that would only hire higher ed graduates.

yeah, it's very tangled reasoning. Isn't the idea that more people would choose to go to college if it were free?

I probably should look up the context in which he said it. I'm into free college, but I also think other types of programs should carry the same weight as 4 year degrees. I especially think there needs to be free medical school programs.

I probably would be just as happy if rich people transparently paid a very high fee to buy an elite school diploma without even going through the act of the kid attending school. That money can go into the education budget. It will free up physical space at schools, add funding and no one has to pretend.

Not to keep beating up on Nathan J Robinson ( I totally am) but not everyone is able to attend a 4 yr private university, then go to Yale Law and then saunter over to try to get a Harvard PhD (maybe he got a stipend here) without being concerned about a decade of super pricey US tuition fees and no real job. That is extreme privilege.

I kind of agree with Mayor Pete on this one. I’d like to see free college as an option in the US but I think it should be offered alongside an option of free technical school, apprenticeships, trade school etc for jobs that don’t or shouldn’t require a traditional 4 year degree.

Is that what he's saying? It's not how I read the quote.

the GI bill covers vocational training IIRC, so in my mind expanding "free college" naturally includes that

Yeah

But also if people want they should be able to take some time to explore greek literature or whatever

Buttigieg did.

Maybe in theory it includes it, but the US is weak in this area compared to places like Germany and if I had to choose where to expend political capital to improve the status quo, I’d start there.

Exploring greek literature is money. If you do not come from a well off family, you pretty much need to start earning as soon as you are able.

Anyway, shut up, y'all, because Peggy Noonan drops science about Joe Biden.

I liked reading that because of the paywall so I only got the first 4 paragraphs and am pretending that was the entire article.

is there no hack to get past that paywall , who the fuck pays for TWSJ ?

I am sure I can read it incognito, but I don't want to.

- the rich
- those who want to know how the rich think
- errr
- that's it

Xp yerac, yeah now that is the deal but it could be different. I’s want to work toward a world where people could spend their linited time on earth doing something besides scrambling to survive.

I want to work toward a world where people can read Peggy Noonan without a fire wall.

you get to read my takes for free i'm not sure why you feel deprived

a world where more people run the risk of being freely exposed to the slurry inside peggy noonan's skull is objectively worse imo

https://images.gawker.com/184e9f9viatsejpg/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800.jpg

who the fuck pays for TWSJ ?

― (•̪●) (carne asada), Friday, April 5, 2019 6:30 AM (thirteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

stepdads

I have a gen z (i think—dunno the cutoff) coworker who reads it every morning.

I've got friends (in their early 40s) who I think subscribe to it, along with the Times. They really like most of the paper, the reporting and arts coverage and whatnot, enough to put up with the editorial side. One of them might need to get it for work, though.

My friend’s parents read it—very liberal and cosmopolitan and mid-60s

I want to work toward a world where people can read Peggy Noonan without a fire wall.

― recriminations from the nitpicking woke (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, April 5, 2019 9:36 AM (twenty minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I want to work toward a world where people can put Peggy Noonan against a wall and fire

Lovely

oh cmon not really

just like maybe w Super Soakers

I do not like all these Bernie emails specifying what I donated before the 2016 election. I don't know where that berning feeling went.

They text me all the time