"oh you don't get me I'm the end of the union": lol brexit is how we're all gonna die

lol, so funny.

It's nice being on the other side of her indefatigablity for once

If there was an opposition party in the UK rn

uh john bercow + yvette cooper + anna soubry + dominic grieve + david allen green + assorted jolyons not party enough for ya ?

https://s3-eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/metro-news-s3-prod/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/Header_2374479_16.9-1024x575.jpg
heard someone refer to IDS rolling up at Chequers in his vintage open top sports car.. lol some random psycho in a huge articulated lorry take the cunt out pls!

I was more of a 20 years hard labour when I saw that.

New week old fight!

* that corbyn is somehow the main problem

(as per gyac) I don't think anyone believes this, though? What people do believe is that they should be able to affect people on their side more than their opponents. If May is unmoved by a march that's 90% Labour voters, that's understandable. Corbyn, not so much. (also lol Theresa May taking notice of anything ever)

* that brexit is more important than a programme to look redistribution of wealth especially regionally with the consequence that
* brexit is somehow more important than getting rid of the tories

I don't think this is a valid binary - functionally speaking, Brexit is the Tories (so, one of the arguments I can see for his hands-off position is to maintain this link - though I think this is both unbecomingly cynical and running out of road). Brexit is the culmination of Tory policy and Brexit is the thing that will fuel any embers of the Tory party after the current flameout. Some fluffy Lexit may exist in an alternate dimension, but chasing after it ignores everything about the current actual world.

Also of course "you care about this so you don't care about that" is a bigger Tory trap than anything else mentioned here in the last two days.

wins' friend desire to go back to 2015 is daft of course, but it's worth noting that the damage done up until then would be reversible to an extent that Brexit won't be.

Also for the love of Jesus, could everyone stop talking about "the cause of Brexit"? There were a lot of them! For a really tight victory! We should be fighting them all!

It’s a fantasy to pretend remaining solves all those existing ills too.

Aye, but no-one thinks this? The EU isn't a panacea that cures all, but it still does more good than harm - it didn't stop the Tories from doing a lot of horrible shit, but it also stopped the Tories from doing a lot of horrible shit, and has done more good for workers' rights over the last thirty years than any elected UK government.

The labour 2017 voter coalition is real and precarious. They are getting pushback on the doorstep during local election campaigning about supporting a public vote! Had they gone full remain in 2016 or 2017, how many seats would they have won? Is anyone here confident in saying they wouldn’t have been steamrollered by the press pushing a “betraying Brexit!” narrative? Because I’m certainly not.

I'm not sure how much more steamrolled they could have been? But yeah, as with the Ash Sarkar thread, they threaded the needle that they felt that had to, but the time for that has ended.

Anyway, here's something we can all agree on:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/24/tory-islamophobia-row-15-suspended-councillors-quietly-reinstated

I didn't know about that because my only source of news is the bbc.

Just a point on Fizzles's excellent post. I wonder whether the EU would ever be the instrument by which you address borders and migration during a climate crisis or at any other time. The movement of people was in conjunction with a movement of goods and money, facilitating commerce/transaction.

There is no doubt you need coordinated action but the EU is full of inadequacies. They are unable to see migrants as people with rights to a life anywhere. People's attitudes will need to change, and leadership will be needed - but it's unlikely to come from the EU.

The EU and the Tories have both enabled austerity. Fantasy to pretend that one or the other have done more harm. Sides of the same coin.

what if it weren't fantasy, though? What if there were some way in which words meant anything and referred to some external reality?

It occurs to me that the title of the thread isn't right at all. It's just that more of us will die if we leave the EU. If we remain we still die through austerity and hard border controls. EU approved death.

To translate your post. Were you saying "what if I'm right and you are wrong?"

People out there ragging on Labour politicians for voting A50 through on a whipped vote have conveniently forgotten that the EU doesn’t negotiate WA with member states who don’t (and the Tory-led press would’ve had an open goal re: denial of democracy).

xp, no I'm just amused at "I dislike both of these things equally, and so by Communist Science their effects must be precisely - precisely! - equal"

comrade unchained

just because fizzles wrote a great post critical of the EU doesn't mean you can reveal all of your true feelings at once. pace yourself

it's much easier to be forgiving of these "little imperfections" when you aren't one step from foodbank desolation though.

that is 100% the tories' fault. social democracy is completely possible in the EU, this is absolutely clear to me

melts accusing ppl who want serious and meaningful change to the redistribution of wealth as being utopianists, perfectionists or narcissists is a recurring theme in this era.

xxp Yeah, I agree, and so does everyone I know on the march. People are people, and "This thing is happening on this date at this time" will produce "We should march against it on this time" because it's more focused than "The Tories are grinding as many people as possible into dust and when they finish they're going to start again".

I don't think anyone believes this, though?

f May is unmoved by a march that's 90% Labour voters, that's understandable. Corbyn, not so much.

Aye, but no-one thinks this?

I'm not sure how much more steamrolled they could have been?

What if there were some way in which words meant anything and referred to some external reality?

Lol good to see Tony on the loose yet again.

Mr Blair replied: "I have done the job of being prime minister, and I know how difficult it is. Frankly, she doesn't need me making it anymore difficult in this particular moment in time."

He added: "The one thing I do say to everyone though is that my country is going through a really difficult period, that's for sure, but don't write us off.

He was questioned on whether he was grateful to have a degree of separation from UK politics in the current climate.

Mr Blair said it is when things are really bad that you want to be involved.

from: https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2019/0324/1038263-blair-brexit/

Mr Blair said it is when things are really bad that you want to be involved.

TIG leadership pitch

Lol imago I am not one to hide my feelings. You aren't the sharpest tool in the box but surely you know that.

Social democracy isn't possible possible in the EU and in any case it will prove itself to be inadequate to what we face.

Bobby.jpg

Blobby.jpg I face autocorrect

ah, I was wondering "Marley or Dylan?"

does anyone know of a decent message board to read about uk politics

Multi XP - sic, I didn't mean that as a derisive comment about leave voters at all, just to be clear.

Why do you want to read about UK politics Darragh don't you have anything better to do?

Read about *checks notes* anarcho syndicalism

Turf burning ranges forum is down for maintenance today.

you joke but that was in fact my weekend calz

Read some effing Connolly.

xp don’t disrespect my culture pls

There is no doubt you need coordinated action but the EU is full of inadequacies. They are unable to see migrants as people with rights to a life anywhere. People's attitudes will need to change, and leadership will be needed - but it's unlikely to come from the EU.

This is all true but even under the most optimistic scenario there is no flavour of Brexit that is going to make the British public more sympathetic to the welfare of migrants from Syria or anywhere else.

A British government inclined to go would stand a better chance of improving migration policy from within the EU - not that that wouldn't present its own massive challenges.

Well the "massive challenges" is the issue except I don't see that chance within the EU, especially now that the far right are capturing it in elections.

Merkel appeared to be humane towards Syrians for a few months and the pushback has weakened her (hers is a long career at the top but from far it seems to have hastened her end).

After being brutalised at work I will make time tonight to watch comrade HEZZA's speech at the march on the YouTube. Sure it's a good one.

Frankly, she doesn't need me making it anymore difficult in this particular moment in time.

fuckin' politics, how does it work

lets not bring politics into politics, that's not how grownups act.

Read about *checks notes* anarcho syndicalism

― xyzzzz__, Monday, 25 March 2019 08:40 (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yes yes i see but listen uk politics are going to happen so im just a tad more invested in that is the thing

anti-rojava bigotry itt

Fucking Blair pontificating about knife crime now somebody really needs to drive a stske thru him

Petition rounding on 5.5 million signatures, that's quite something

what is the previous highest?

167

the famous benediction of hitler petition?

ah, I was wondering "Marley or Dylan?"

"Holl' you! Huv ye fuckin' forgoatten aboot fuckin' yours truly? Don't tell me ah went oan that fuckin' This Week tae get the fuckin' push ripped oot me by yon Andrew Neil for nu'hin'!"

worstbobby.gif

The constituency breakdown is an unexpected aspect of it. More than a few “my constituents would never let me Betray Brexit” MPs are looking at large percentages of those constituents signing and are getting itchy as a result - cf Mark Field.

In South Belfast more people have signed than the total number who elected their DUP MP. Not that this will soften her line obv

wandering thru norwich to sort out details for a book event 2moro and also to get my stupid iphone fixed, thinking abt scott walker obv: turn a corner to be ambushed by a raggedy man playing mournful trad irish flute in a little square and just hit by a huge wave of sadness and i don't even know what: there are so many rough beasts slouching in our* direction that have absolutely been invoked and conjured and are long deserved: https://www.bfi.org.uk/news-opinion/sight-sound-magazine/reviews-recommendations/film-week-silence

*and not even an uncontentious "we" to take delivery, this i also know (the subtext of the book is probably how badly one of these "we"s dropped thr fkn ball)