"We've got him this time" fantasies have run out of road
How about instead of Democrats using investigations as an avowed means to impeach, they use them simply to expose the activities of his administration that are broadly unpopular or directly illegal. So far, several Cabinet members have quit after being nailed for petty corruption. Successful impeachment and conviction has always been a long shot.
Maybe use the findings from Mueller as a lever to improve the security of US elections?
― A is for (Aimless), Sunday, 24 March 2019 21:17 (five years ago) link
US elections will not be secure until the plutes are gone
― difficult listening hour, Sunday, 24 March 2019 21:21 (five years ago) link
teach chuck schumer to use email in the meantime, sure
― difficult listening hour, Sunday, 24 March 2019 21:22 (five years ago) link
One Dem campaign, after seeing that "campaigns are panicking" tweet, points out that the candidate took 30 Qs this weekend from voters. Questions about Mueller? Zero.The "no collusion" finding is unambiguously good for Trump. But if you think Dems were betting 2020 on this...— Dave Weigel (@daveweigel) March 24, 2019
― 𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Sunday, 24 March 2019 21:28 (five years ago) link
that's this tweet
It’s fair to assume there is a significant degree on panic setting in this afternoon at the DNC, Democratic primary campaigns across the country— Josh Lederman (@JoshNBCNews) March 24, 2019
― 𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Sunday, 24 March 2019 21:29 (five years ago) link
ask the plutes real fucking nice-like, im sure they wont escalate any win or draw.
time is...oh fuck it
― Hunt3r, Sunday, 24 March 2019 21:30 (five years ago) link
the DNC, Democratic primary campaigns
v hardworking comma splice
― difficult listening hour, Sunday, 24 March 2019 21:31 (five years ago) link
^^ important Supreme Court case imo
― recriminations from the nitpicking woke (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 24 March 2019 21:34 (five years ago) link
lol
― Hunt3r, Sunday, 24 March 2019 21:35 (five years ago) link
The summary of Robert Mueller’s report, given to Congress by Attorney General William Barr, asserts that President Trump engaged in a number of actions that impeded the investigation. At the same time, it concludes that Trump’s campaign did not criminally conspire with Russia during the 2016 campaign. Barr seizes upon the latter point – no criminal collusion – to dismiss the former point. While Mueller punted on whether Trump broke the law, Barr decided to deem his conduct not a crime. “The absence of such evidence bears upon the President’s intent with respect to obstruction,” write Barr. No underlying crime, he argues, means no obstruction.Barr’s logic is upside-down. He is saying the finding of no criminal collusion undermines the findings that Trump obstructed justice. In fact, the obstruction undermines the findings of no criminal collusion.
Barr’s logic is upside-down. He is saying the finding of no criminal collusion undermines the findings that Trump obstructed justice. In fact, the obstruction undermines the findings of no criminal collusion.
no maaaaan, this whole WORLD is upside-down. but for real, it is.
http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/03/if-trump-obstructed-justice-he-cant-be-exonerated.html
― but i'm there are fuckups (Karl Malone), Sunday, 24 March 2019 21:52 (five years ago) link
i assumed that pelosi downplayed impeachment proceedings with possible “turn” in the event crim malfeasance was alleged. Non-crim stuff would be tactical decision. Aaaand nothing has really changed
― Hunt3r, Sunday, 24 March 2019 22:06 (five years ago) link
This show has bad writing overall; Trump has too much plot armor
― Evan, Sunday, 24 March 2019 22:20 (five years ago) link
― Simon H., Sunday, 24 March 2019 22:30 (five years ago) link
The hot take I haven't seen yet is that Dems will be better off w Mueller wrapped up; some candidates have vented to me (in the past) about heading into TV studio to talk DACA or health and instead getting Russia/impeachment Qs. https://t.co/udisI7eLFP— Dave Weigel (@daveweigel) March 24, 2019
― Simon H., Sunday, 24 March 2019 23:14 (five years ago) link
I mean it sucks but Russia feels like a 2017 story to me, the Pres has been implicated in like 50 more crimes since Mueller was appointed
― frogbs, Monday, 25 March 2019 00:35 (five years ago) link
Worth the read.
As Brian goes on to say, because Mueller had every intention to adhere to DOJ rules that the president can’t be indicted, he was on a fact-finding mission. The remedies for Trump’s misconduct are political, not legal. Until see Mueller’s actual report we simply don’t know what he learned, and a brief summary obviously intended to put the most favorable spin on the report leaves plenty of open questions.
Finally, this has been a persistent theme around here, but as Matthews says Mueller was never going to “save us,” simply because there was never going to be anything in the report that would compel Senate Republicans to remove him. To the extent to which the report reduces pressure on House Dems to initiate counterproductive impeachment proceedings this is a good thing.
― recriminations from the nitpicking woke (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 25 March 2019 01:05 (five years ago) link
1) Will it stop pressure to impeach from those most vocal?
2) I worry how this will affect congressional committees (and elections). It's a lot easier for Republicans to call Dems time-wasters as they continue their investigations now that this report finds nothing damning (that we know of).
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 25 March 2019 01:17 (five years ago) link
Let's stop concentrating on impeach. The point is to investigate and never letting them relax.
While this happens, the candidates can keep hammering on health care, the threat to abortion rights, the effect of climate change, etc.
― recriminations from the nitpicking woke (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 25 March 2019 01:19 (five years ago) link
fwiw I genuinely don't think any campaign is "panicking" right now, bc everyone either found it to be a burden or would have figured out by now that it was unlikely to be explosive. It's really more the gallery that was kept in suspense.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Monday, 25 March 2019 01:24 (five years ago) link
yep
― recriminations from the nitpicking woke (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 25 March 2019 01:31 (five years ago) link
mueller is punting to politics, it's time to really play politics. impeachment should be the objective, even if unstated, because if you cant beat this guy at it, you will not get the reforms you want and we need any time soon anyway. tide will go out. also ppl will think you suck and we will deserve this pubeclod president's competent fash successor.
― Hunt3r, Monday, 25 March 2019 02:03 (five years ago) link
1 its possible to get a perpetually and exclusively self-interested with a grift-only philosophy and record to actual dismissal, I believe it.
2 he is an actual danger in ways that go beyondbuild the wall horseshit, belee that
― Hunt3r, Monday, 25 March 2019 02:07 (five years ago) link
Who is Dave Weigel and why do I suddenly see his tweets everywhere and all the time
― Van Horn Street, Monday, 25 March 2019 02:18 (five years ago) link
He used to write for Vox, now writes for WaPo, and has a lot of access with the Dem primary campaigns. Not sure why it's sudden for you in particular.
― Simon H., Monday, 25 March 2019 02:20 (five years ago) link
He has good takes
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Monday, 25 March 2019 02:36 (five years ago) link
He’s a good journalist in the reporting sense who hasn’t had a “both sides” lobotomy.
― 𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Monday, 25 March 2019 03:02 (five years ago) link
He wrote a book about prog
― officer sonny bonds, lytton pd (mayor jingleberries), Monday, 25 March 2019 03:13 (five years ago) link
mueller is punting to politics, it's time to really play politics.
I agree. The only crimes I thought would seriously expose Trump to impeachment would be either clear and obvious quid pro quos between him and Russia regarding lifting sanctions in exchange for Russian hacking of the election on his behalf, or else evidence of massive financial crimes. Mueller did not turn up sufficient evidence of the former; the latter is still in play, but at best emerging publically late this year.
It's smartest to let the investigators do their jobs and keep up as much political pressure as possible on identifiable popular issues, e.g. M4A, student debt relief, passing a better tax reform bill in order to finance a green new deal, and rational immigration reform, with a possible side play for raising the national minimum wage. Reparations would be good, too, but that push is still in early days and can't be a central plank, yet.
― A is for (Aimless), Monday, 25 March 2019 03:25 (five years ago) link
Beyond the actual report, which virtually no one has actually seen - how long is it? what questionable activity and individuals are documented in it? - there are a surprising number of glaring loose ends. Wasn't Gates still up in the air? What happened to Andrew Miller, or Jerome Corsi, both of whom were I thought threatened with subpoenas or indictments? How did Don Jr. escape more scrutiny? For that matter, did Mueller stop because he was done or because he was told to stop? Could the report have specified which if any of those characters Mueller and his team forwarded on to other legal bodies to pursue, and why? That could be a reason to keep it under wraps, at least for now. Four-page Barr letter def. introduces more questions than it answers.
And through it all Trump is still a dangerous, destructive asshole, so hopefully he'll get his. He's so compulsive that hopefully his months of cry wolf "witch hunt! no collusion!" will lose their magic powers when he starts crowing again on the stump.
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 25 March 2019 11:58 (five years ago) link
I remember it like it was yesterday. pic.twitter.com/fjbJncVhGm— Doug Henwood (@DougHenwood) March 25, 2019
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Monday, 25 March 2019 15:33 (five years ago) link
how're those pathetic prayer candles working out
― illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Monday, 25 March 2019 15:46 (five years ago) link
This:
I reckon some fairly smart people are in such a furious hurry to sink the knives in, on the basis of a noted legal cover-up artist's selective hyper-partisan spin on Mueller's report, because they're guessing correctly that what's actually in it isn't great for their reputation. https://t.co/DkH9i7SiZc— Will Wilkinson 🌐 (@willwilkinson) March 26, 2019
― Frederik B, Tuesday, 26 March 2019 11:55 (five years ago) link
Whaddaya think they got on Greenwald?
― ☮ (peace, man), Tuesday, 26 March 2019 12:23 (five years ago) link
he goes on Fox
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 26 March 2019 12:32 (five years ago) link
he has dog
― We were never Breeting Borting (President Keyes), Tuesday, 26 March 2019 13:24 (five years ago) link
in re. taibbi's WMD analogy, this actually seems more apposite (might need full thread for context):
The media's atrocious gullibility, which is letting this happen without serious resistance, is even more scandalous than the credulity that herded public opinion behind the invasion of Iraq. Because we already *know* this administration does nothing but lie.— Will Wilkinson 🌐 (@willwilkinson) March 25, 2019
― affects breves telnet (Gummy Gummy), Tuesday, 26 March 2019 13:27 (five years ago) link
This Trump campaign memo seeking to de-platform Democrats constitutionally duty-bound to check executive abuses of power, on the basis of claims consistent with Barr's gloss on Mueller's report, gives away the aim of the game: no rule of law, no oversight. https://t.co/jKtPg1isB9— Will Wilkinson 🌐 (@willwilkinson) March 25, 2019
― affects breves telnet (Gummy Gummy), Tuesday, 26 March 2019 13:28 (five years ago) link
Trump's hand-picked AG (confirmed by a lapdog Senate, with a record of shielding presidents from scandal) telling us what the report says & sitting on it doesn't settle anything. But spinning it like it does to prevent congressional oversight tell us a lot. This is far from over.— Will Wilkinson 🌐 (@willwilkinson) March 25, 2019
― affects breves telnet (Gummy Gummy), Tuesday, 26 March 2019 13:29 (five years ago) link
weird to see "leftsist" buying barr's lines
*leftists
b/c Trump has successfully painted the media as "liberal" and they've all said he's exonerated so
― frogbs, Tuesday, 26 March 2019 13:31 (five years ago) link
where've y'all been on this and the politics thread in the last two days as certain posters rent their garments?
― recriminations from the nitpicking woke (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 26 March 2019 13:33 (five years ago) link
one one hand Barr is a Trump goon, but on the other he's been friends with Mueller for decades. I'm not really expecting a ton of discrepancies btwn the summary and the report
― Simon H., Tuesday, 26 March 2019 13:38 (five years ago) link
I mean the answer might be 4 but I wanna see if they both used the same equation to get to it
― Buttigieg comes right from the source (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 26 March 2019 13:42 (five years ago) link
WMD analogy is so dumb. If Trump had been impeached and executed, along with most of his supporters, and THEN Mueller told us there was no collusion--maybe you'd have a case. Or if WMD had been an idea that was looked into by experts, who came back and said there's no evidence, which led to the invasion of Iraq being called off. Fuck political analogies IMO.
― We were never Breeting Borting (President Keyes), Tuesday, 26 March 2019 14:10 (five years ago) link
if anything it's like Benghazi, minus the part where the person actually had to testify
― frogbs, Tuesday, 26 March 2019 14:15 (five years ago) link
whether he "colluded" and whether that is a crime or an impeachable offense is a bit of a misdirection at this point. he clearly has SOMETHING going on with Russia, given the blatant lying about his dealings with/in Russia and his fawning over and deference to Putin.
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Tuesday, 26 March 2019 16:23 (five years ago) link
My sources say the death penalty, for espionage, being considered for @StevenKBannon. I am pro-life and take no pleasure in reporting this.— Louise Mensch (@LouiseMensch) July 19, 2017
― ( ͡☉ ͜ʖ ͡☉) (jim in vancouver), Tuesday, 26 March 2019 16:28 (five years ago) link
I'm still shocked that they went through with that, RIP Steve.
― The First Time Ever I Fly @ U Face (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 26 March 2019 16:30 (five years ago) link
Mensch is straight up being incepted at this point
― Buttigieg comes right from the source (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 26 March 2019 16:47 (five years ago) link