"oh you don't get me I'm the end of the union": lol brexit is how we're all gonna die

not actually sure how booming it is! as I say, registering with your presence your opposition to the total clusterfuck that this has been from soup to nuts, even though you may not share what the person next to you thinks, is I think not just justifiable but laudable. people on streets do matter, as do large-scale expressions of opinion such as the petition, even if you don't like them very much or feel they won't have much impact. i don't really have a lot of time for the cynicism that says they don't, or that they don't have meaning or implications outside of their ability to get anything done.

sorry, I'm flip-flopping a bit, but I really took against the people's vote campaign, which clearly has a strong presence at this march, but which I felt was basically tory enabling in a lot of its expression, and I'm having to fight that emotional cynicism down to try and get a bit more level-headed!

I’ve spent the morning running along south coast clifftops and all the wheatears have returned for the spring and they’re flitting between fence line and gorse bush and don’t these cunts know they’re not welcome anymore?

Sorry am in pub and possibly possessed by the ghost of bill oddie

that sounds delightful.

pub and southcoast clifftops both.

i think i'm going to back into Gerard Manley Hopkins' Journals to get as close to the calz and NickB Saturday morning as I can, as my heart is beating dangerously fast after thinking about both-sides-ism and horseshoe politics types.

Yeah, I don't stand for any of that and nor do the vast vast majority of the people on the march.

In fairness it really is people who didn't vote to leave who have been very significantly ignored for two years, of course.

i get the impression there’s a fair bit of corbyn dislike at “enabling” brexit among the crowd, andrew.

I'd imagine the opinion of Corbyn amongst the marchers, as with the labour party, is divided.

Yeah fizzles otm re that list of things. I will say that as far as I could see the marchers, if they had signs, were uniformly anti-Tory whereas FBPE Twitter was all about Corbyn. I wouldn’t have felt so warmly about them had I seen anti-Corbyn stuff out there.

I don’t think anyone itt, with maybe a couple of exceptions, thinks Corbyn is to blame for Brexit. Do they?

2/ the @No10Vigil and @EUflagmafia teams doing a marvelous job! Come find me and the crew here at Richmond Terrace opposite Downing Street after the #PeoplesVotemarch!
I will be performing at some point! #EUsupergirl #StopBrexit pic.twitter.com/z5F25i033R

— Madeleina Kay #EUsupergirl 🇪🇺🇬🇧✊ (@MadeleinaKay) March 23, 2019

Four headed brexit monster in here

I have no intention of sticking around past the end of my contract next year but if I were reading this thread as a freshly arrived EU national (say, from Poland or Bulgaria) who wishes to settle in the UK and who may not be able to as a result of a collective act of xenophobia, I would take little comfort in finding out that this is all quite insignificant in the grand scheme of things when you look at it from the perspective of an enlightened resident.

the projection of every possible slight onto remainers is a very curious trait of uk ilx but obv ye have yere reasons along different axes (to grind nest pas)

Hmm I feel like ppl have made a point of distinguishing between “the fbpe crowd” and “all remainers” itt, mauve even in recent posts, impossible to check tho

xp as another immigrant, the cluelessness people rankle st is the fact some of the well meaning people who are opposing Brexit didn’t give a fuck about the poisonous rhetoric towards immigrants and members of ethnic minorities pre Brexit. Yes, it’s great they are vocal about it being bad now, but the actual government has been reporting black citizens and trying to hurt EU citizens while the country was still in the EU. It’s a fantasy to pretend remaining solves all those existing ills too.

Which all, marches and petitions or leaving the EU? xxxp

But I get that deems and pom like to do the “please do excuse my questioning as an innocent outsider but I wonder if any of you have considered that Brexit is bad?” like multiple threads with “we’re all gonna die” in the title is so inscrutable

Corbyn isn't to blame for Brexit (although he has possibly understated its dangers) but there is an enormous and unfair public perception that he is, which is why I can't see him surviving the massive anti-Westminster backlash that a hard Brexit would engender. Happily I can see the entire Tory party surviving it even less

some of these numpts in EU face-paint piss me off as much as Tommy Robinson tbh. Like gyac says black uk citizens getting cold deported and told by home office gl and disguise your English accent, millions of working poor relying on charity, a couple of hundred thousand dead disabled ppl. All this shit happened in the EU. That's why 1000% behind Corbyn and completely lukewarm on 2nd refs and other bullshit.

ppl have mentioned remain side independent of fbpe about twice in three years

must have missed all yr content in that time obv

xps to wins

Yeah, everyone here voted leave & was commenting from that perspective.

Yes, it’s great they are vocal about it being bad now, but the actual government has been reporting black citizens and trying to hurt EU citizens while the country was still in the EU. It’s a fantasy to pretend remaining solves all those existing ills too.

I'm sorry, but this reads like 'the US was already a racist, murderous shithole before Trump got elected, can you imagine wanting to turn the clock back to 2015?'. There are hues to consider, unless you buy into the pendulum theory of history.

Wanting to go back to the exact conditions that led to Brexit idk we could aim a bit higher than that mebbe

If you espouse a determinist sociology of cause and effect, sure.

good weekend to visit a national trust property

(sorry)

can you imagine wanting to turn the clock back to 2015

My favourite hue is hue-ge redistribution of wealth.

I completely agree with you, I simply fail to see why repeatedly dissing remainers is part of the package, especially when some of them happen to be non-residents that will no doubt get kicked out in the not-too-distant future. Have it both ways.

xp

remainers are not some amorphous group, and lots of them are tory cunts!

Brexit makes nothing better, for either Leave or Remain. And it makes the “causes” of Brexit worse too, I’d argue.

“Stopping” it illegitimately is also hideous; especially as those most pissed off at the prospect include the right-most elements.

It’s a horrible fact of timing that participation in the EU elections is so close to exit day and is being rapidly made totemic when all routes apart from No Deal or the bad deal really require participation

gyac
Posted: 23 March 2019 at 14:50:09
Yeah, everyone here voted leave & was commenting from that perspective.

ftr pom. I'm a remainer, purely on the technicality of how I voted in '16.

did anyone vote leave who posts itt or on ilx?

I’m already home from the March, which I attended because I have no vote in the country where I live and pay tax.

i voted leave

I completely agree with you, I simply fail to see why repeatedly dissing remainers is part of the package, especially when some of them happen to be non-residents that will no doubt get kicked out in the not-too-distant future. Have it both ways.

And despite all those things, I don’t want Tony fucking Blair out there speaking for me & saying the EU will stop freedom of movement to keep Britain in. I don’t want people pretending 2015 was some fucking golden age when I saw the numbers of homeless people on the street increase hugely in the six years I’d been living in the UK. I don’t want people pretending the EU, which has been disgraceful with the refugee crisis & austerity imposed on its lesser states, is some beacon of freedom and progressiveness.

Is that clear enough for you? I’ve posted all these things on various comments, I don’t expect people to remember, read or even care about them all, but don’t pretend I take a view that I don’t.

the fact of the matter that the only route to a second referendum runs through the labour leadership office and the (non-cynical) FBPErs have failed to recognise that, failed to build bridges and failed to work with and/or persuade labour to their cause. instead they have castigated the one man who is actually effectively operating as a bulwark to a hard tory brexit. this risks undermining his political capital and ultimately increases the risk of a harder brexit than labour are trying to work towards.

you can see this in the windmill jolyon tweet I posted above. he is no doubt a v nice well meaning sort but his political acumen seems a little lacking. labour members are fairly remainy - don’t alienate us by attacking us

Brexit is part of a hard-right continuum and I doubt that we'd simply return to Cameronian austerity after its thwarting. The jig is hopefully up for all of these cunts.

the cynical FBPErs like blair, mandelson etc know full well that labour’s strategy is the right one. instead they have hijacked the FBPE movement as a way to launder their reputations

OTM. And just as May failed to build consensus with the Remain side for her Leave plan; too much FBPE is doing the same in the other direction.

Suit yourself, gyac. I take a different view of the EU, perhaps because, without it, Romania would be even less than the nothing it already is. The EU's flaws, while very real, are still infinitely preferable to the alternative. And a post-Brexit UK is likely to become even more of a neoliberal dystopia (I hope to be proven wrong).

he EU's flaws, while very real, are still infinitely preferable to the alternative.

Damn true gyac must regret voting leave

Yes that is exactly what I've been presuming throughout.

I certainly regret writing a long comment that said much the same and which was ignored!

I have a LOT of time for the argument that matt DC made that we may look back in 8-10 years and regret that the labour party did not stand up and show moral leadership on this. I genuinely do swither on that - however, I think the party is unable to be tough on brexit until it has been tough on the causes of brexit. that means plotting a strategy which holds together its electoral coalition.

we also need to get away from thinking about this whole issue as an issue of “sides” - that culture war nonsense only plays into the hands of the right. the labour party are correct when they say the real divisions in our country are not between remain and leave

The labour 2017 voter coalition is real and precarious. They are getting pushback on the doorstep during local election campaigning about supporting a public vote! Had they gone full remain in 2016 or 2017, how many seats would they have won? Is anyone here confident in saying they wouldn’t have been steamrollered by the press pushing a “betraying Brexit!” narrative? Because I’m certainly not.

crush the saboteurs would not have been reduced to an FBPE punchline