i feel like "intellectual dark web" and particularly "black pill" types would love cioran. i also don't think they would necessarily understand how _funny_ cioran is.
― the scientology of mountains (rushomancy), Thursday, 14 March 2019 14:53 (five years ago) link
not that /lit/ is uniformly alt-right men but they have definitely discovered cioranhope this image auto resizes
http://imgur.com/eGyzjT2.jpg
― XxxxxxxXxxxxxxxxXxxxx (dylannn), Thursday, 14 March 2019 15:01 (five years ago) link
That's a rather… broad definition of 'right-wing literature'.
― pomenitul, Thursday, 14 March 2019 15:02 (five years ago) link
for my legionaries, a hayek book, evola, pat buchanan, the unabomber, spengler... an intellectual buffet
― XxxxxxxXxxxxxxxxXxxxx (dylannn), Thursday, 14 March 2019 15:04 (five years ago) link
As a side note, I do find it amusing how Cioran's self-styled 'E. M.', which he fabricated to imitate writers such as E. M. Forster or T. S. Eliot, still graces the covers of his English translations to this day. Emil had no middle name.
― pomenitul, Thursday, 14 March 2019 15:06 (five years ago) link
I love that they include Kurt Vonnegut but have a little asterisk "just read the one that flatters your anti-egalitarian stance, don't accidentally read anything about how war is stupid and evil and western civilization is kind of a joke"
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Thursday, 14 March 2019 15:07 (five years ago) link
a more general /lit/ nonfic recommendations listhttps://4chanlit.fandom.com/wiki/Recommended_Reading/Non-fictioncioran gets in there too but a different and obscure? book
― XxxxxxxXxxxxxxxxXxxxx (dylannn), Thursday, 14 March 2019 15:08 (five years ago) link
A "Nietzschean" tag and no actual Nietzsche
― jmm, Thursday, 14 March 2019 15:15 (five years ago) link
That list isn't half bad tbh. Lyn Hejinian is on it!
xp
― pomenitul, Thursday, 14 March 2019 15:15 (five years ago) link
A&A is a collection of essays and stories, which could serve ok as a general introduction to Cioran I suppose xxp
― Uptown VONC (Le Bateau Ivre), Thursday, 14 March 2019 15:18 (five years ago) link
They're referring to Elisabeth Nietzsche iirc.
― pomenitul, Thursday, 14 March 2019 15:19 (five years ago) link
also isnt "harrison bergeron" supposed to be a satire of rand?
― you know who deserves sitewide mod privileges? (m bison), Thursday, 14 March 2019 15:23 (five years ago) link
they included emet ve-emunah (principles of conservative judaism) but if they wanted reactionary religious jewish works i could've hooked them up with stuff that made a lot more sense!
― Mordy, Thursday, 14 March 2019 15:34 (five years ago) link
there are a lot of great / interesting books on that list tho if this is what they're reading (i'm sure they're mostly not) it seems pretty formidable
― Mordy, Thursday, 14 March 2019 15:35 (five years ago) link
― Mordy
why would a reactionary want to read something that "made sense"
― the scientology of mountains (rushomancy), Thursday, 14 March 2019 16:44 (five years ago) link
none of these people have fucking read the magic mountain
i'm fucking livid it's included
― jolene club remix (BradNelson), Thursday, 14 March 2019 16:46 (five years ago) link
i meant made more sense for a bunch of reactionaries looking for religious traditionalist works. not something that necessarily made internal logical sense.
― Mordy, Thursday, 14 March 2019 16:46 (five years ago) link
i'm guessing they don't know what "conservative" in "conservative Judaism" means
― Mordy, Thursday, 14 March 2019 16:49 (five years ago) link
that seems like a safe bet
― moose; squirrel (silby), Thursday, 14 March 2019 16:50 (five years ago) link
― jolene club remix (BradNelson)
no, but they pretended to read it, and ultimately isn't that what's really important?
― the scientology of mountains (rushomancy), Thursday, 14 March 2019 17:54 (five years ago) link
maybe they just think all germans are on their side automatically
― Jeff Bathos (symsymsym), Thursday, 14 March 2019 17:57 (five years ago) link
xp fascinating work, dylannn. Thanks for sharing here.
― Trϵϵship, Thursday, 14 March 2019 18:05 (five years ago) link
I don’t know very much about the internal dynamics of china.
― Trϵϵship, Thursday, 14 March 2019 18:06 (five years ago) link
And many americans i assume are in a similar boat
I wanna get you on a dunno boat re: china
― moose; squirrel (silby), Thursday, 14 March 2019 18:17 (five years ago) link
Our class read "the Chosen" when I was in fifth grade
― Bnad, Thursday, 14 March 2019 18:18 (five years ago) link
took this pic in the library the other day
http://i63.tinypic.com/22ixk6.jpg
hope this list doesn't get him cancelled :(
― difficult listening hour, Thursday, 14 March 2019 18:41 (five years ago) link
this is /lit/ not exactly representative of the alt-right as a whole or even 4chan, also has a large faction of non-alt-right people toobut good place to get turned on to obscure-to-me books (i'd never heard of julian jaynes the origin of consciousness in the breakdown of the bicameral mind until browsing /lit/ today)
also thanks treezo!
― XxxxxxxXxxxxxxxxXxxxx (dylannn), Friday, 15 March 2019 04:36 (five years ago) link
Magic Mountain is super centrist-liberal if it's anything. Settembrini is an airy-fairy idealist with vague notions of Brotherhood Amongst Peoples, Naphta a harsh doctrinaire extremist. Iirc Mann originally planned to have these two serve as equally valid/flawed points of view but as historical events mounted up he sided with Settembrini. I guess from a conservative pov you can suggest the book is Owning The Marxists but their counterpoint is basically a EU stan avant la lettre, which doesn't really reconcile with modern conservatism (well, within the EU it sometimes does).
― Daniel_Rf, Friday, 15 March 2019 11:19 (five years ago) link
the magic mountain is not a reactionary text in any form or fashion. i think mann thought there was a problem with liberalism in that it didn't integrate the darker impulses of human nature -- something like the death drive -- in its account of reality. but naphta, who gives himself over to human irrationality, is clearly depicted as more than a villain. if the novel has a "message" it's that the enlightenment needs to be more dialectical if it is going to avoid getting bulldozed by evil.
― Trϵϵship, Friday, 15 March 2019 13:19 (five years ago) link
mann thought there was a problem with liberalism
Sounds like he deserves to get posthumously cancelled.
― pomenitul, Friday, 15 March 2019 13:21 (five years ago) link
I mean, he wasn’t someone I’d want to be friends with, given the things he wrote in his diary about his young son klaus. But the magic mountain is an incredibly complex book that doesn’t flatter any particular ideology.
― Trϵϵship, Friday, 15 March 2019 13:27 (five years ago) link
Mann expressed his belief in the collection of letters written in exile, Listen, Germany! (Deutsche Hörer!), that equating Russian communism with Nazi-fascism on the basis that both are totalitarian systems was either superficial or insincere in showing a preference for fascism.[32] He clarified this view during a German press interview in July 1949, declaring that he was not a communist, but that communism at least had some relation to ideals of humanity and of a better future. He said that the transition of the communist revolution into an autocratic regime was a tragedy while Nazism was only "devilish nihilism".[33][34]
― Trϵϵship, Friday, 15 March 2019 13:29 (five years ago) link
I was being facetious btw. That reading list deserves praise for including complex, ambiguous writers, assuming whoever put it together grasps those nuances in the first place and doesn't use polysemy as an excuse to further spread their own dumb ideology ('let me tell you what Mann really meant…').
― pomenitul, Friday, 15 March 2019 13:35 (five years ago) link
I knew you were. I just wanted to further emphasize how much that book doesn’t fit into a “right wing” list.
― Trϵϵship, Friday, 15 March 2019 13:37 (five years ago) link
ime these dark cathedral / intellectual alt-right guys can be extraordinarily fascinating to talk with partially bc many of them read lots of weird shit. moldbug always had a corpus of alt-canon he was plugging (a lot of which is on that list)
― Mordy, Friday, 15 March 2019 13:41 (five years ago) link
anybody who takes their display name from mencius is obviously going to be fairly well-read
which mostly serves as an object lesson on the limitations of being well-read, sadly
― the scientology of mountains (rushomancy), Friday, 15 March 2019 19:19 (five years ago) link
All too true, sadly. Renaud Camus, who coined the phrase 'the great replacement' is an excellent prose stylist and a 'learned' man. He's also partly, albeit indirectly responsible for the Christchurch mosque shooting.
― pomenitul, Friday, 15 March 2019 19:28 (five years ago) link
on first read-through this seems like a good analysis of the manifesto, touching on some of the "absurd" points made above
https://medium.com/@emilypothast/what-the-christchurch-killers-manifesto-tells-us-about-the-radicalization-of-white-men-c55857149b33
― Emperor Tonetta Ketchup (sleeve), Saturday, 16 March 2019 01:16 (five years ago) link
sorry by "above" I mean in the "fucking spree shooting" thread but I think this is better here
― Emperor Tonetta Ketchup (sleeve), Saturday, 16 March 2019 01:17 (five years ago) link
sleeve do you know emily who wrote that piece? she's a friend of mine and writes very singularly about this subject
― Clay, Saturday, 16 March 2019 01:58 (five years ago) link
no but I noticed that the person who pointed me to that article has numerous FB friends in common w/me
― Emperor Tonetta Ketchup (sleeve), Saturday, 16 March 2019 02:12 (five years ago) link
I had a few friends in common w her and liked her writing enough I added her on Facebook. Always good stuff.
― dan selzer, Saturday, 16 March 2019 02:38 (five years ago) link
The works continues to get progressively stranger by the minute.
lol the guy who murdered the Gambino mob boss repped QAnon in court pic.twitter.com/MtYE6vRJGA— egg boy (@lib_crusher) March 18, 2019
― ShariVari, Monday, 18 March 2019 21:02 (five years ago) link
That's like the murder equivalent of beginner's luck or something. Only someone completely stupid and detached from reality would attempt and succeed at that kind of thing.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Monday, 18 March 2019 21:43 (five years ago) link
Do you get the impression they're reading much stuff that has case studies in it or are they more into, I suppose, dark aesthetics?
― Never changed username before (cardamon), Monday, 18 March 2019 21:57 (five years ago) link
They tend to mistake the latter for the former.
― pomenitul, Tuesday, 19 March 2019 08:51 (five years ago) link
“I want his mother and his father dead! I want his house burnt to the ground”“Says here his father already got whacked at Deely Plaza in 1963, boss”— Wyatt Chet Failson III esq. (@TheFanciestLad) March 19, 2019
― maura, Tuesday, 19 March 2019 12:48 (five years ago) link
As far as the reading lists are concerned i think there's a ton of play between pleasure of text and discourse as rational structure that people - quite rightly! - blur and lose themselves within
i.e. I don't believe in "not getting it", the possibilities for what you get from something as a reader are the heart of reading
― Helel Cool J (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 19 March 2019 12:55 (five years ago) link
the worst solecism is thinking that you understand your pet writers in ways that yr ideological foes don't
― Helel Cool J (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 19 March 2019 12:57 (five years ago) link