US Politics February 2019: This is one of the great losers of all time.

Well I am sorry Jim not everyone is as pre-occupied by the environment as you are, I wish they were, but sadly they vote too and politicians have to answer to them. So how do you plan to convince half the population to radically change say their personal finances when all you can muster is jokes about centrism. I am interested in answers. I suspect Karl, an user I have all the admiration in the world for to know this better than I do, but really I could do without your specific kind of sad snark.

I’ve been pro-Armageddon for some time, nobody has ever been “convinced” of anything

a realistic roadmap for the GND to be accepted, lest implemented over several years, not in its current form.

as far as this goes, it's tough to address with specifics because the GND itself is more of a roadmap or resolution, not a detailed bill with specific policy proposals. it's an outline and a marker of the kind of level of effort that needs to be taken, but it doesn't say "$20 billion in wind energy subsidies in 2020" or anything like that.

but keep in mind that there are a lot more jobs in wind and solar than there are in something like coal, and as a bonus, you don't have to risk getting black lung when you install solar panels, and wind turbines don't periodically spill billions of gallons of oil into vulnerable ecosystems. there would be a lot of benefits from a full-on plunge into a progressive environmental policy that would be very appealing to lots of people who don't give a shit about the environment. if it weren't for decades of straight up lies and misinformation and criminal malfeasance from the fossil fuel industry the energy industry would look quite different today.

but yeah, i suspect that there really are repercussions that most everyday people would absolutely hate. the smear campaign about the GND included stuff about how they want to take away hamburgers, which the left fought back against by (correctly) saying there's nothing of that sort outlined in the GND. but the uncomfortable truth is that yeah, actually agriculture and meat-heavy diets are HUGE contributors to climate change, and if we're serious about doing something about it, something's gotta change. so stuff like that, yeah, you're absolutely right there will be very difficult political headwinds to navigate and i suspect that even on the left there will be a big battle between people who are willing to confront those truths and others who keep thinking we can innovate our way out of it (i.e., the "Impossible" burger which is actually quite tasty, and on the less tasty side of the spectrum, a better version of Soylent)

*chanting* vat MEAT vat MEAT vat MEAT

MEATvat

MEATvat

MEATvat

yeah tbh I can’t wait to take away hamburgers. sorry cattlemen, learn to code!

wow, very helpful tweet marco, thanks so much

pic.twitter.com/ZwxbWyV1HF

— Marco Rubio (@marcorubio) February 24, 2019

wtf

My senator is dying for this to go down like Panama in '89.

Isn't that a pretty unbelievable Best Case Scenario? If it ends like Panama rather than Libya or Iraq, that's a pipedream. On the other hand we might be heading down the road towards another Syria, so there's no good solutions.

in more lighthearted news,

President Donald Trump confronted the United States’ own trade representative over his use of the term “memorandum of understanding” during a televised meeting in front of the top Chinese trade negotiator Friday evening.

Eventually, after laughter from the Chinese delegation over the public spat, U.S. Trade Representative Robert Lighthizer pledged to follow the President’s whim and stop using the term to refer to any trade agreements with China.

“I don’t like MOUs because they don’t mean anything,” Trump said during the televised Oval Office meeting with Lighthizer and Chinese Vice Premier Liu He on Friday.

Lighthizer responded, contradicting Trump: “An MOU is a contract. It’s the way trade agreements are generally viewed. People refer to it like it’s a term sheet. It’s not a term sheet. It’s an actual contract between the two parties.”

“By the way, I disagree,” Trump said, to laughter from Liu.

“From now on, we’re not using the word ‘memorandum of understanding’ anymore,” a clearly exasperated Lighthizer responded. ‘We’re going to use the term ‘trade agreement,’ alright?”

“Okay,” Liu said back.

Lighthizer added: “We’ll have the same document, it’s going to be called a trade agreement.”

he is every dumb boss you've ever had, combined, only he's the president

yeah tbh I can’t wait to take away hamburgers. sorry cattlemen, learn to code!

― Larry Elleison (rogermexico.), Sunday, February 24, 2019 8:56 AM (four hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

otm

A lot of Panamanians died in that splendid little war.

to be (way too) fair, 'memorandum of understanding' is a bad euphemism

uok rubio?

The Republican Party, everybody!

“We were the first to assert that the more complicated the forms assumed by civilization, the more restricted the freedom of the individual must become.” Benito Mussolini

— Senator John Cornyn (@JohnCornyn) February 24, 2019

I mean...surely he was not quoting him approvingly? right?

I'm guessing he was trying to analogize Democrats to fascists because Democrats are for big government that regulates society and therefore restricts freedom. Republicans have not conceded that most of the complications of civilization are driven forward by corporations, who are more than happy to restrict society's freedom, especially if they can control an effective monopoly, but whenever it results in greater profits.

agreed it's meant to be a "big government is fascist" gotcha, but boy what a clumsy quote to try and deploy for that purpose.

> there's no good solutions.

Really depends on how strong the communications between neighboring Latin states (primarily) and the US (secondarily) are with the officer class in the Venezuelan military. I suspect there's a path where the Maduro is exiled to another Latin American state, and other ranking officers are informed that their corrupt gains and personal/family security are secure, in which lengthy civil conflict is avoided.

What America shouldn't do is get ahead of Latin American governments. If they decide that the sensible option is isolation and containment, then we support that.

"Trump receives a pension as a member of the Screen Actors Guild."

Who knew?

'Latin American governments' aren't unified on this question, though.

who cares about other Latin American governments?

If they decide that the sensible option is isolation and containment, then we support that.

Sanctions are never 'sensible'.

Brazil, Colombia, Peru, Chile, Argentina all recognize Guaido as acting president.

I view Venezuela as the last remaining Latin military junta. The Left used to have a coherent opinion on that. I don't particularly like Guaido as a savior (his party is right of center), but a return to normalcy and democracy is better than a bunch of military officers stripping a country of wealth under the guise of helping the local working class.

Lol of course fascists like Bolsanaro - who stole the last election by putting Lula in jail - recognise Guaido.

I think you'll find Guaido will give crumbs to the Venezuelan working class. This 'centre right' stuff is just guff.

There's a Agnieszka Holland movie (Mr. Jones) out in 2019 about the Ukranian famines of the 1930s under Soviet rule. The Left of the 1930s, including many journalists, willfully ignored it at the time.

I see a parallel situation with Venezuela, today. Certainly external sanctions have contributed to the hardship of Venezuelans, but the grab for power by the Venezuelan military junta is a black mark for the Left.

Many journalists are reproducing this crap. Bet you anything the landowners are hoarding food. Ultimately you & I don't know enough and you shouldn't use some book you read about the 30s famine (which other historian like Sheila Fitzpatrick will read events in a different way, btw) to post like this.

What I do know is Westerns interventon in Iraq and Libya has been a disaster but your Scando film wordsmith is typing "pipedream" that it might not be so bad. It could be the paradise that is Panama. A lot of brainpower went into that.

There are bad actors both Right and Left.

I'd have a lot more sympathy for the Venezuelan junta if they were, say, attempting to implement land reform to correct centuries of post-colonial plantation economy, and replaced a recalcitrant, reactionary Supreme Court that opposed that. That's not the case, here. Land reform and claiming PDVSA's cash flows had occurred during Chavez's term. The junta stacked the Venezuelan supreme court and replaced the elected legislature because they were in opposition and were about to evict them.

Fundamentally, I believe in democracy more than I believe in command economies. I'm enough of an engineer to understand that taking all the cash-flow from the one nationalized export commodity will cripple that industry and foreign currency earnings. I'm a humanist, rather than a died-in-wool Leftist.

Ecuador has a center Left government and supports Guaidó. Uruguay is center Left and has remained neutral. I'd like the USA to follow Uruguay's lead.

lol imagine the USA following Uruguay's lead! Like it wasn't consulting anybody when it imposed sanctions that are making a difficult situation worse. That's even before reading Rubio's tweet following yesterday's stunt. You love democracy but Guaido won't run against Maduro's movement. He wants a coup.

I don't specially believe in command economies either but its not what this is about. I just see this as a game for the US.

Trump probably pronounces Uruguay as "U-R-Gay".

well, finally -- he emulates Katy Perry!

xyzzzz: I'd agree 100% that Trump and Elliot Abrams are cunts, and I want neither to have any part in deciding Venezuela policy.

After 8 years of largely hands-off policy during the Obama administration, the situation in Venezuela still deteriorated. The suffering of the Venezuelan people isn't primarily due to external factors. It's partly "Dutch disease" from being a single commodity exporter, but mostly inept economics from Caracas.

I've been a spectator to this slow slide into social collapse for over a decade. I don't see how it will right itself from external pressure. Intervention would only lead to a decades long insurgency. I do know that things will get a lot worse over the next few years, and that only some pragmatic government accountable to the people would stop it. I wish Guaidó was a centrist/pragmatist rather than on the Right. But I do think that supporting democracy is always better than supporting those who would take from a position of power. And right now, the military junta surrounding Maduro is that position of power.

Got me spread like a buffet
Bob appetit baby

https://nh1-kg5winhhtut.stackpathdns.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/AP19015023184999-768x512.jpg

lol “Bob”

that picture will never get old

and yet it means such polar opposites to different audiences

donald trump is just like me, an everyman who would order hundreds of mcdonalds hamburgers to feed a visiting group of college football champions

left: what a crass shithead whose bully tactics caused pointless shutdown leading to the farce of feeding junk food to athletes at an official WH reception

right: he stuck to his guns and stuck it to the democrats, and worked around the shutdown by feeding good everyday American food to those kids, out of his own pocket

There's a Agnieszka Holland movie (Mr. Jones) out in 2019 about the Ukranian famines of the 1930s under Soviet rule. The Left of the 1930s, including many journalists, willfully ignored it at the time.

I see a parallel situation with Venezuela, today. Certainly external sanctions have contributed to the hardship of Venezuelans, but the grab for power by the Venezuelan military junta is a black mark for the Left.

― The feminine side of (Sanpaku), 25. februar 2019 00:13 (eight hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Looool I saw this one a few weeks back, and it's just xyzzz in a nutshell. He would so be Walter Duranty.

Looool the other sock controlled by my sockmaster just got banned but I'm gonna keep shitposting with impunity

― Frederik B, Sunday, February 24, 2019 11:43 PM (two minutes ago) Bookmark

I mean: Bet you anything the landowners are hoarding food.

If you are going to bring in some scenario straight out of the 1930s famine playbook...There are people starving but the reasons are far more complicated than what can be offered by The Guardian or Amnestry. I read your posts on the Burning thread you can't even cope with ambiguities in the film I hardly think you can judge what might be going on in Venezuela.

xyzzzz: I'd agree 100% that Trump and Elliot Abrams are cunts, and I want neither to have any part in deciding Venezuela policy.

After 8 years of largely hands-off policy during the Obama administration, the situation in Venezuela still deteriorated. The suffering of the Venezuelan people isn't primarily due to external factors. It's partly "Dutch disease" from being a single commodity exporter, but mostly inept economics from Caracas.

I've been a spectator to this slow slide into social collapse for over a decade. I don't see how it will right itself from external pressure. Intervention would only lead to a decades long insurgency. I do know that things will get a lot worse over the next few years, and that only some pragmatic government accountable to the people would stop it. I wish Guaidó was a centrist/pragmatist rather than on the Right. But I do think that supporting democracy is always better than supporting those who would take from a position of power. And right now, the military junta surrounding Maduro is that position of power.

― The feminine side of (Sanpaku), Monday, 25 February 2019 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Unfortunately being a democrat is leading you into supporting Guaido -- wishing he was a pragmatist -- and I'm sorry to tell you but pragmatists in the UK have brutalised and killed the poor and disabled here with benefit sanctions. Pragmatism is something that doesn't work for the people who need it the most. What would work would be a lift of sanctions and allowing the movement to continue and the internal debate within it to work out a solution.

All I'm saying is you may not know what to think of it on partial info (like me too) and that's fine we are all outside of the country and we won't have to live with the consequences of any actions.

What would work would be a lift of sanctions and allowing the movement to continue and the internal debate within it to work out a solution.

Just... lol.

Laughing all the way to imperialism, intervention and civil war.

You really don't think everyone sees through your 'I know nothing, you know nothing, it's all ambiguous' act, when in the same breath you're declaring that Maduro is going to sort it all out of he just gets the chance?

I read your posts on the Burning thread you can't even cope with ambiguities in the film I hardly think you can judge what might be going on in Venezuela.

this was a good burn tho

lol, 'burn'.

I am not saying Maduro sorts it I am saying the movement that bought Chavez and Maduro to power sort it. That you saw me as backing Maduro only is useful as you don't see social movements, only grand actors. Tells me all I need to know about your politics. xps