2020 Democratic presidential primary

or did he? I remember it being a thing. I like Bernie. He's just pissing me off.

so many americans now register independent bc they're angry at their political party but they still vote straight-ticket

bernie sanders is a democrat who pretends he's not to titillate ppl who fancy themselves political rebels. the problem isn't that it's disloyal but that it's extremely childish.

― Mordy, Wednesday, February 20, 2019 11:08 AM (eleven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Well calling yourself socialist when most of his policies are run of the mill centrist stuff just north of border (look at Quebec) is also just marketing.

It is admittedly bad that he switched back to independent after the last election. There’s no good reason for it. Anyone who cares about his crusades should be at least a little annoyed w him for doing that since it undercuts what he says he wants to accomplish.

There's no good reason for a lot of shit he has been doing.

wtf do socialized college and healthcare have to do with anything in the Democratic party platform for the past quarter century? Good on him for making the small if symbolic distinction between himself and the Democratic party, not sure why this is "childish"

I mean I find the “he’s not even a Democrat!” people annoying sometimes but it seems arguably sillier that he makes a point of not calling himself one.

Maybe when the party adopts some thoroughly progessive positions he'll do that

He’s not a “socialist” and it’s weird he uses that moniker, but his vision of a compassionate society was never aligned with what the party was and is.

'Socialized college'? Is that a thing?

He's always made a point to say democratic socialist though.

wtf do socialized college and healthcare have to do with anything in the Democratic party platform for the past quarter century?

that should be your giveaway -- the parties are not eternal monoliths but entities that change over time driven by the needs and desires of their participants.

someone else posted above something I never knew, that he ran for 2016 because he couldn't convince Elizabeth Warren? What's the point now?

he votes with the democrats, he has leadership positions through the democratic party, he is elected by democrats, and he holds positions that have historically been democratic positions and looks back to historical democratic figures like FDR for political precedence. he is not far outside the mainstream of the dem party (tho he is to its left). there's literally no reason he couldn't just be a democrat except for what i said above which is that registering independent appeals to americans distrustful of institutions in general who want to demonstrate, even in a superficial way, their unique, independent bonafides.

xp But he is affecting that change in the D party now, while registered as an Independent, so I/m not sure what the calculus is

the calculus is "ew democrats"

xxp to yerac: different stakes/political landscape/accrued support?

it's nobody's fault but this thread and 3275 messages as of February 2019 is giving me the heebie jeebies

I'm a registered Democrat out of necessity, and do not identify as a Democrat, so expand your mind.

(my calculus is "fuck Democrats")

who gives a fuck what party someone "identifies" as. they're not real platonic objects. they're ad hoc names that have developed over a century of political events.

the calculus is "ew democrats"

more specifically, I think the calculus is "the Dem brand is toxic or at least tarnished for a lot of Americans so any distance I can hold onto is worthwhile." and tbh I think there's evidence that calculus has worked out well for him so far!

I'm a registered democrat and would rather everything go full dem socialist. He's in an even worse political landscape to throw his hat in. But yeah, he's popular, has stayed mostly under the radar in the last year, xpost

i almost registered as an independent once out of anger at the democratic party but then i realized that literally the only reason i registered democratic in the first place was to vote in primaries and that there would still be primaries in the future i'd want to vote in and that literally not a single human being alive gives a shit what party is listed on my voter id.

who gives a fuck what party someone "identifies" as. they're not real platonic objects. they're ad hoc names that have developed over a century of political events.

― Mordy, Wednesday, 20 February 2019 16:37 (one minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

works both ways if there's political gains to be made

he's a frontrunner for the dem nomination afaic he's a democrat whatever he calls himself

God, I am going to be so pissed if it ends up being two straight white men up for president again. FFS. Treading water down some rapids.

xp i think thats fine, yknow everything is 'afaic' between the ditches and the primary and everyone here wpuld vote for him or Warren or whoever after thats done

anyone acting like theres an actual moral imperative on any nominee or potential nominee not to run or to run but softly or whatever is idk here id say they were talking shite but that might come across as overly aggressive to yanks so sub in a fond but disapproving phrase as you wish

multi-xps

Now, Mordy, all Sanders is doing with the 'democratic socialist' label is branding his positions as standing well to the left of the party mainstream, which they are. For at least the past five decades that was a label that required some courage to claim as one's unique selling point, even in Vermont, which may have been the only state where such a label would not instantly sink your candidacy. By sticking to it doggedly and laying out his progressive agenda clearly and proudly, he has rehabilitated the idea of socialism, which is a good thing, and probably of greater value than if he had simply identified himself as Yet Another Democrat and voted exactly the same on every bill.

I won't be, if it means Orange Grifter loses. xxp

God, I am going to be so pissed if it ends up being two straight white men up for president again

Right there with you, but I'm equally dreading watching a quality female nominee get nitpicked to death.

I think Bernie's an inspiring, nice guy who lives in a quiet state and he's had an average career prior to running; he has some hypocritical doodoo sharks in his voting record. And generally the role of president doesn't matter as much as local offices blah blah. But representation really, really, REALLY matters. I don't have kids but yikes, even I can see that.

but again, I am also ok with a lot of dem candidates all running on very similar platforms so eventually it gets solidified as THE dem platform.

i remember in 2006 taking my daughters into the voting booth with me to vote for hill and thinking about how amazing it would be that they'd grow up in a world where the most powerful person was a woman and i daydreamed a little bit about the difference that might've made and honestly i probably overstated it in my imagination but when she lost i think that's the disappointment that hurt the most (attenuated by the fact that the guy who beat her wasn't just some guy but in many ways represented the opposite - a world where the most powerful person in it was an abuser of women).

2016 i meant but i think i really meant 2015?

no i guess i meant 2016. we vote every 4 years - trump was inaugurated in 2017 right? so next voting day will be 2020 and next inaug will be 2021? sorry feeling kinda dopey atm.

pendulum is likely to swing hard regardless of candidate which imo should be a grand blessing and a huge mountain to overcome.

I was talking to someone recently about how much different my life would've been if I had been able to see more women and more women that were like me in certain positions. I mean my life is wonderful but even things like watching Crazy Rich Asians or seeing how little girls look at Michelle Obama with awe makes me cry.

Well calling yourself socialist when most of his policies are run of the mill centrist stuff just north of border (look at Quebec) is also just marketing.

The Canadian parties that have implemented or most strongly advocated those policies have usually also identified as "democratic socialist" or "social democratic" tbf.

Free tuition, an aggressive move away from fossil fuels, and the tax rates that Sanders and Warren are proposing are well to the left of the Canadian centre, and possibly to the left of the NDP, too.

Some of those things might be in the NDP platform but you'd never know it from their talking points.

They were def not in their 2015 platform, nor the legislation of the two NDP provincial governments afaict (and I like BC's).

ugh yes how terribly silly of one of the few gay people of color on a thread dominated by white straight males to take exception to a maladroit statement by a Dem candidate, the way we all take exception to the hundreds of statements made by Harris, Booker, Clinton, Biden, etc.

Do carry on.

― a Stalin Stale Ale for me, please (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, February 19, 2019 10:03 PM (fifty-seven minutes ago

you're right, I'm sorry

― k3vin k., Tuesday, February 19, 2019 11:01 PM

No problem, kev. You're one of the good 'uns. This thread can be as painful as tetanus.

damm this thread sux

ok

I care about representation too. Even as a not big fan of Hillary Clinton, I felt very happy telling my daughters I was voting for her in the general. Same with Cynthia Nixon, Kirsten Gillibrand, and Grace Meng, among others, in 2018 (as my then six year old said, "wow, there are a lot of girl presidents!").

But, you know, that doesn't mean I'd support Margaret Thatcher. Or Sarah Palin. Or Ben Carson. Obviously none of the current dem candidates are in the same universe as those people, but there's still a question for me of how much weight to give representation versus platform.

Like, little girls feeling empowered by Michelle Obama is one thing. But that will not change whether they have access to the affordable healthcare and childcare they need to actually be successful later in life.

someone else posted above something I never knew, that he ran for 2016 because he couldn't convince Elizabeth Warren? What's the point now?

He has an agenda, an organization, and an enthusiastic following; I like Warren a lot but it's not yet obvious to me that she would be the stronger advocate for the policies they hold in common.

i hope i get to chose between those two -- it would be legitimately tough and for the right reasons.

i think one will fall out before new york and it will be bernie or warren vs. some lame-o ilxors like

I’m not sure who qualifies as “some lame-o ilxors like”.

Yeah seems Warren/Sanders will poll ahead of anyone else, Treesh.

anyone else in the race