2020 Democratic presidential primary

I voted for Bernie, but yeah...

i don't think that it should be controversial to say that bernie has flaws as a pol, and one of those flaws is having a tendency to be brusque or put his foot in his mouth when he's not talking about his pet issues.

The notion that he would answer a key question on the first day of the most important campaign of his career to get some 'people mad online' need to leave the web for a day or two.

― Van Horn Street, Tuesday, February 19, 2019 2:18 PM (two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i think people itt were saying that the question was aiming for a controversial answer, not that bernie answered the way he did to piss people off online

He gave the answer least reassuring to the people least convinced about his candidacy in 2016.

his answer sounds kinda like ... MLK

who is outta fashion, i realize

So despite Alfred casting Sanders as John the Baptizer, a presidential messiah will not save you.

Dance of the Seven Bernies

I agree that that’s bad. The worst part about his entry into the race is the return of residual drama that most people want to move past. People like him too much and people hate him too much. Comparible argument for why Hillary shouldn’t have run in 16.

“btw i could point you to at least one popular blog of Democrats where the sentiment is just short of "die Bernie die."
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr

his answer sounds kinda like ... MLK

― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, February 19, 2019 2:23 PM (thirty-two seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

who is outta fashion, i realize

― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius),

since when do you allude to Rich Lowry?

equating "policy diversity" with or in comparison to "racial diversity" would have been a fucking disaster tbh

Kinfolk Kollective is pretty funny about him "Y’all know another white man who marched with King? Charlton Heston. Ask me how that turned out."

tbh a big reason why im not thrilled is that there's a good chance he wouldn't run for reelection in 2024 if he won and we'd have to have another goddamn primary

*not thrilled with bernie running in 2020

"Let's not concentrate on a candidate’s color, sexual orientation, gender or age," said the straight white dude from Vermont in his seventies about Kamala Harris, Warren, Booker, etc.

I can see wanting Bernie for a number of good reasons (there’s both valid pragmatic and aspiration cases to be made imo) it’s just that the “everyone sucks but him”/“he’s the only good candidate” voices are super toxic, have been bad for him and everyone.

― Nerdstrom Poindexter, Tuesday, 19 February 2019 18:46 (twenty-nine minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

nobody on ilx is like that

cpl of ppl on ilx are like that about other candidates tho

i think people itt were saying that the question was aiming for a controversial answer, not that bernie answered the way he did to piss people off online

― we're far from the challops now (voodoo chili), Tuesday, February 19, 2019 2:22 PM (one minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yeah I was mostly answering Iglesias' tweet that the answer was 'calibrated to make people Mad Online'. While I don't think it's a good answer, the attempt to portray Sanders has being disingenuous or even trolling seems really stupid to me.

Mordy, your first two suggestions are mostly just more diplomatically phrased versions of what he did say. The third expresses an entirely different message altogether.

I don’t think he was actually ascribing intent.

xp to VHS

straight white dude from Vermont in his seventies

will the mlk similarities ever cease???

nobody on ilx is like that

Except for the "he's not a Democrat - all Democrats are evil and must be destroyed" guy.

he's the best candidate, but that doesn't mean he's the only one thats good!

since when do you allude to Rich Lowry?

i don't really know anything of him except he's one of those righty fuckers u mysteriously pay attention to.

maybe just listen to the words, voodoo

when you are 77 you will sound like your formative influences too

.@tacobell Your sausage breakfast burrito is delicious, but there is just one problem. It screws with my digestive system something fierce, even making elimination sludgy, almost syrup-like and so on and so forth. The sausage burns upon exit, believe you me. https://t.co/j3vOniaOu1

— Richard Nixon (@RichardNixon103) February 18, 2019

"I've never heard of any of these people whose opinions mysteriously mirror mine! It's a mystery!"

I have no doubt that anyone who wins these primaries will be rallied around a lot more than in 2016. The emergency has exponentially increased now that we know (someone like) Trump can be elected. I think the fear Bernie will once again divide the GOP's opposition is misguided.

Heck, even speaking with fellow Frenchs in 2017 the notion that Trump got elected made them rethink the idea that Le Pen would never get past the second round. While I have no stats to back it up, I'm sensing it had an substantial impact on the results.

xpost silby, my bad then!

I can assure you that the Real Richard Nixon would not have said "and so on and so forth" in that sentence.

he's the best candidate, but that doesn't mean he's the only one thats good not terrible

fixed

Bernie is not my ideal candidate, and he does tend to phrase things in a way that is not exactly up to date with the wokest phrasing. But the candidates that are more adept at woke phrasing also happen to suck more politically. The best of them politically is surely Warren, but she (1) also puts her foot in her mouth when it comes to wokeness and (2) has done some things that make me question whether she has the political aptitude to face Trump. And iatee I think you are being a bit disingenuous since I doubt Warren is your candidate of choice.

also maybe a lot of wokeness sucks idk maybe tho

he could've said "i bring ideological + policy diversity," or he could've said, "i think you'll find my policies will help people of all genders and racial identifications" or he could've said, "i'd be the first Jewish president which would be diverse" -- the answer he gave was probably the worst version.

― Mordy, Tuesday, February 19, 2019 7:05 PM (twenty-two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I agree with the people who think that the first and second of these options would have annoyed most of the people annoyed by the answer he actually did give, the third one would be interesting, if he made a choice to try and present himself as the potential First Jewish President instead of Another Old White Guy, I kind of wonder how that would play for him, if it would harm him more than benefit him? It seems that saying something like that would be contrary to his personal values, I feel like he'd be uncomfortable going down that route even if it would help him.

as done some things that make me question whether she has the political aptitude to face Trump

this is most sensible ppl's major, possibly only, concern w/r/t Warren I think

not deems who is a stalwart of anti-woke perspectives but it's kinda funny that the most pushback on ilx against standpoint theory or identity politics happens in defense of bernie sanders

It seems that saying something like that would be contrary to his personal values, I feel like he'd be uncomfortable going down that route even if it would help him.

fwiw i suspect it would not help him lol

some candidates i will not name are clearly "slick" before they're anything else

they can lose elections nevertheless

I think this Natalie Shure thread sums up a lot of ppl's views on Warren v Sanders

Difference between Sanders and Warren: she's an anti-monopoly wonk striving to write fairer rules for capitalism with a safety net; he's a New Dealer who wants to confront capitalism as the root of social problems and build robust universal entitlements.

— Natalie Shure (@nataliesurely) February 19, 2019

I think Bernie would be wise to let someone else in the race invoke his jewishness before countering with the First Jewish President rebuttal. If no one tries to make it a negative issue, I don't think there's much mileage in his trying to leverage it into a net positive issue.

he's the best candidate, but that doesn't mean he's the only one thats good not terrible

Well at the end of the day they're all terrible, I wouldn't have any of them in the house, bernie included. but i would have them introduce free healthcare and take a break from wars

she also seems like the straight-up smartest candidate in the field and he does not if that sorta thing matters to you (it does to me) xxxp

boy would Bernie would have been perfect for 2008 and Obama for today.

I agree that his jewishness becoming an issue would be unlikely to help him and would probably just add another dimension of toxicity to the whole thing, re where jews fit into id politics based on white/PoC binary and Israel and probably lots of other things that cause arguments on the left

The not-religious person broadly seen as an old white guy proclaiming his Jewishness as diversity cred would take waaaaaaay more shit than even his poorly worded statement today.

Shure makes a mistake: the New Deal didn't want to destroy capitalism either ("confront" is a hedge).

if that sorta thing matters to you

it matters to me less than it would to, say, gabbneb. being 'smart' can help one foresee difficulties and a path around them, but when you're working inside a large, complex political system, then having good political instincts, honed by extensive experience, will get you farther than just an abundance of intelligence. It's the difference between a Tip O'Neill vs. an Adlai Stevenson.

He'll be under scrutinywiths Harris re:incarceration; Vermont disproportionately incarcerates non-whites in a state that is really, really white.

Vermont disproportionately incarcerates non-whites in a state that is really, really white.

Hard for me to see a US Senator as responsible for his state government's legal system. That's entirely up to the governors, attorneys general, legislators, county prosecutors, judges and juries.

Shure makes a mistake: the New Deal didn't want to destroy capitalism either ("confront" is a hedge)

neither does Bernie, that's why she used that word and not the other word

i'm not sure how it is that this thread is consistently way worse than the other US politics threads but my god is it terrible. literally every three days people we start over again from either unsubstantiated old-hat 2016 arguments, obvious concern-troll cliches, outright tendentious trolling from the usual suspect, or the latest moronic variation on "but explain to me again, why do you think i should take a candidate's past actions and words into account when deciding who to support in a primary?" it's the closest ile discourse gets to something that genuinely could be produced by a well-taught algorithm. everyone needs to stop and like, read the whole thread through before posting again... shock to the system, break the cycle.

― |Restore| |Restart| |Quit| (Doctor Casino), Tuesday, February 19, 2019 2:01 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I think the issue is that everyone here is too plugged in, too jaded, weary etc — we’ve seen it all before. and there’s this tendency (on all sides) to overthink things, to think like a pundit, to try to triangulate all the opinions of varying people we talk to instead of just being voters who care about issues. we all do it!

I do think bernie bros like myself could stand to just have thicker skin, too! I am actually open to a lot of these candidates personally and am not sure at all whom I’ll vote for. I would just appreciate a little more correctness being brought than the usual “did you know that some bernie voters voted for trump??!??” bs or whatever

xpost i know a lot of articles were written about it in 2016 but it goes back to criticism about Bernie not doing shit for non-white people in Vermont.