Is this anti-semitism?

But maybe there's something to be said for not turning it into a spectacle. A lot of these little shits/sick adult fucks want nothing more than national attention.

I think it's shocking & am surprised there's not been more made of it. there has been coverage locally and in jewish media of the vandalism and of a demonstration against antisemitism that took place in the city centre a few months with a few hundred people, but I am not aware of much national coverage (although things outside of london and the south east not being covered by the national media is the norm). I am also not convinced that media coverage is always a good thing but it seems to be rising without much coverage

https://jewishjournal.com/online/294383/downtown-mural-prompts-concern-of-anti-semitism/

i'm going to say definitely

Yeah that’s a yes

what's interesting is that i could've imagined someone accidentally using jewish stars (amid all the non-jewish stars) but what made it obvious was ironically when "he said on his Instagram page in 2018 that it was inspired by a trip he had taken 'to Palestine some years back.'" since that made the association with jews explicit even if "anti-Israel" isn't the same as "anti-semitism" here the former *is* a giveaway for the latter.

a single pro-mural comment from an occasional counterpunch writer and obvious anti-semite there.

The Jewish people has always been plagued by Bad Jews, who undermine it from within. In America, those Bad Jews largely vote Democrat.

— Ben Shapiro (@benshapiro) November 8, 2011

wow i should feign cynicism but i'm legitimately shocked he said that

what a prick

Seems American Jews are overwhlemingly bad then. :(

a single pro-mural comment from an occasional counterpunch writer and obvious anti-semite there.

― omar little, Tuesday, February 26, 2019 9:05 PM (twenty-four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

counterpunch also used to publish this guy, who is a holocaust denier as well as an anti-semite:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Shamir

The Jewish people has always been plagued by Bad Jews, who undermine it from within. In America, those Bad Jews largely vote Democrat.

These statements are so crazy bad that 'shocking' is a legit response. If you apply even the first glimmer of critical thinking to them they are nothing more than sinister-sounding, fact-free sludge dumped on Jews who vote for Democrats.

that shit honestly makes me hope ben shapiro would ___

and yeah it is shocking, i started shaking a little when i read it

apparently according to shapiro something like 70% of american jews are "bad jews"?

like the right everywhere always, the american and israeli rights believe that you can either be a stormtrooper for your nation or you can be a craven, stateless, will-sapping agent of a seditious internationalism

I'm surprised that you guys are surprised. Ben Shapiro is ebola for the mind.

It fits just fine with my impression of him.

@benshapiro stop talking shit lil boy

— Waka Flocka (@WakaFlocka) April 13, 2016

in a moment when there are far more loathsome public figures than anyone can possibly keep track of, ben shapiro stands out. not literally, since he's like four foot six. but figuratively, he stands out as being especially awful.

It is disturbing that Rep. Omar continues to perpetuate hurtful anti-Semitic stereotypes that misrepresent our Jewish community. Additionally, questioning support for the U.S.-Israel relationship is unacceptable. (1/2)

— Rep. Juan Vargas (@RepJuanVargas) March 4, 2019

pretty extraordinary that a democratic member of congress would say this second part

is it

meanwhile Jim Jordan referred to Tom Steyer as "Tom $teyer" on Twitter yesterday and it barely ruffled a feather. I feel like I'm taking extra crazypills with this one.

"Additionally, questioning support for the U.S.-Israel relationship is unacceptable."

this is Omar's point. this is all so self defeating and completely stupid.

i'm not sure that "Tom $teyer" is antisemitic (i didn't even know the guy had a jewish parent until this blew up and it's unclear he identifies as jewish whatsoever - is "Bill Gate$" an antisemitic comment? is even "George $oro$?"), nb that i also wasn't sure that omar's initial comments about AIPAC were antisemitic either however i do feel like her "allegiance" to a foreign power comments are much more problematic.

tbc omar's point is not simply that we should be allowed to question the US-Israel relationship. her point is that pro-Israel activists and supporters bribe US congressmen to betray & undermine US interests out of loyalty to israel. people think that's antisemitic bc in addition to writing out any kind of legitimate political expression of pro-Israel sentiment as being compatible w/ US support + loyalty (like as if they were normal ppl who love the US and love Israel and consequently want the two to have a close relationship), she is insinuating that there is something malevolent, secret + sinister about pro-Israel support in the US. note that one can argue against the US-Israel relationship and against Israel without these insinuations.

did she say all (or any?) of that or is that your inference?

she said: “I want to talk about the political influence in this country that says it is okay to push for allegiance to a foreign country.”

isn't it also possible that different people have different conceptions of what constitutes "US interests"? like to Omar maybe that means prioritizing human rights, including those of Palestinians.

yes, and she can argue that we should have different interests without suggesting that ppl who want the US to support Israel are pushing for allegiance to a foreign country. just say "i don't think our interests are served by having such a close relationship with israel" -- her approach has been to characterize the support as itself problematic and coming from loyalty to another country. when she advocates for palestinians does that mean that her is pushing for allegiance to palestinians? or that's only when someone is advocating for Israel?

but the quote you cited above doesn't say anything about allegiance to a foreign country at the expense of this one. I don't understand why it can't be read as criticizing dual allegiance to one's own country and to Israel and simply wondering why it's deemed almost universally acceptable to offer unconditional support for the latter country while it is engaging in apartheid. it's just kind of maddening when we have real debate and division in this country over the things WE are doing to marginalized people but for some reason when Israel is doing it, a whole bunch of people are a lot less outraged.

i think the implication has to be "at the expense of this one" right? otherwise it doesn't make sense - why would you criticize someone for wanting the US to have a good relationship with another country if it benefits them both? like i said, it's not dual allegiance that ilhan advocates for palestinian rights. and if my case against her doing so was "was is it ok for her to push allegiance to a foreign people" you'd rightly notice that i'm making a right-wing xenophobic argument at best. it's not hard to criticize israel even strongly without getting into stuff like "dual loyalties" or accusations of bribery. i don't see why the latter are necessary or valuable or represent liberal values?

I think that the pro-Israel side has a bit of “boy who cried wolf” problem in that accusations of anti-semitism against its critics have become so routine that people tend to not take them seriously unless something grossly offensive is said. Omar seems to be doing some expert trolling here.

i don't disagree but tbc ppl on the right say the same thing about accusations of racism or sexism. these are all charges that are easy to weaponize.

Good point , and Trump expertly trolled liberals on those charges all the way to the White House, so I think the pro-Israel side needs to be careful of over-playing its hand.

the pro-Israel side needs to be careful of over-playing its hand.

A large part of Congress competes to see who can produce the most stridently pro-Israel quotes. The winners of this contest sound so sycophantic as to invoke Poe's Law. However, the US Congress has never been notable for its depth of intelligence or susceptibility to shame. Not long ago Paul Ryan was seen as prime leadership material, so take this as a clue to the general run of the place.

However, the US Congress has never been notable for its depth of intelligence or susceptibility to shame.

that's my theory about why some of these congressfolk are super pissed off about omar. she's making them to respond to questions they've never had to seriously think about that require nuanced answers.

i disagree tho i do think she could serve that role if she was able to make her critiques of israel w/out this other baggage that makes it so easy to dismiss her. contrast with warren's tweet about bibi which was on point, hostile, etc and didn't have a trace of antisemitism:

Corruption—in Israel, in the US, or anywhere else—is a cancer that threatens democracy. We need to fight back. And we can start by having the courage to call it out wherever it occurs. Even among our allies. Especially here at home. https://t.co/Q8kdaj3fiH

— Elizabeth Warren (@ewarren) February 28, 2019

i was talking to a guy last week who was a pro-palestinian activist and he was arguing about khazar jews stole israel from the palestinians and that antisemitism is a bullshit charge because khazar aren't even semites and palestinians are. i was trying to explain to him that his advocacy would probably be more powerful if he got rid of the genetical/historical myths and semantical etymology bullshit and just made a direct case but he couldn't hear it and ultimately i felt like trying to teach a pro-palestinian activist to be better at his activism went counter to my interests so i let him be. as long as the focus is on the ancillary bullshit it isn't going to be anything any israel supporter is going to worry about. every ZOA + AIPAC person i know irl is in love w/ ilhan and the opportunity she provides to shut down criticisms of israel through poor rhetorical tactics.

w/out this other baggage that makes it so easy to dismiss her.

...

Omar is clearly being dismissed

in case it somehow wasn't clear the other baggage i meant was accusing AIPAC of bribing congressman and Israel supporters as having dual loyalties. you can stay away from these sorts of ideas without diluting a critical message at all. they really are not necessary.

Lobbyists exist to bribe politicians.

You’re not allowed to call it a bribe if they aren’t forking over literal bags of hundos

i think i wrote more about the specific AIPAC thing itt above when it first came up. all that's relevant to say here tho is that you can criticize israel without trying to paint support for israel as illegitimate. that's a tool of ppl looking for excuses for why their primary critiques aren't succeeding (it's bc our enemies are using money and power to suppress us). but of course on the contrary critiques about israel are plentiful and consistently backed by numerous organizations w/ tons of cultural capital as well as many nations. the reasons for US support of israel are diverse and certainly more significant than "they're being bribed."

“Support for Israel is illegitimate” - or unacceptable or whatever - also isn’t anti-Semitism.

when she advocates for palestinians does that mean that her is pushing for allegiance to palestinians? or that's only when someone is advocating for Israel?

― Mordy, Monday, 4 March 2019 20:15 (two hours ago) Permalinkk

co-sign many of Mordy's points above, esp. this. i idea of people having an "allegiance to a foreign country" over and above their allegiance to the US, and that being the nature of the problem, is probably neither the best nor the clearest way to get at the problems with AIPAC and Likud influence over US foreign policy.

I think that her calling out "bribery" is a little blunt and un-nuanced but so what, it's basically to the point. but the idea of competing allegiances reminds me of people who wondered if JFK would be "loyal" to the US or to the Pope. it just inevitably has this troubling aspect of ethnic-based suspicion.

the vargas quote is nuts btw. he's making subtext text.

tbh i'm beginning to think that the influence of Likud and Bibi over US foreign policy is going to implode on its own, through sheer brazenness and incompetence.

milo i said above that i didn't consider the AIPAC comment antisemitic per se (whereas the allegiance comment was much more troubling to me tho also not 100% obviously antisemitic) but it is clearly becoming a pattern of how she talks about israel which is insinuate that it is supported by the US because of bribery and suppression and I don't blame anyone who hears ZOG when that's the case. maybe israel is the way it is bc the US is a violent right-wing country that bombs and terrorizes nations around the world and they're israel's patron and encourage similar behavior from their client state. but no, the tail must be wagging the dog.

I mean hopefully Bibi goes to jail and Likud's grip on the Knesset weakens and so on and so forth but I expect the string of bad outcomes since they did Yitzhak Rabin dirty to continue somehow

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