"oh you don't get me I'm the end of the union": lol brexit is how we're all gonna die

(And yeah obviously it goes without saying the EU has its own abysmal treatment of refugees to reckon with as well, it's not an innocent wronged party here)

Thanks for that, Matt DC.

My folks are non-British EU citizens who've lived in the UK 50 years+. And, yeah. I hadn't spoken with them much about it until the holidays just gone, although of course I knew they felt horribly disappointed and betrayed.

Not to mention the practical and legal issues EU27 nationals living in the UK have to negotiate.

I was of the view that you have to "respect the result" and a 2nd referendum isn't viable but the way I feel about that has definitely changed.

I'm in this camp and because of my nature I'm sort of studiously going around making sure we've lined up all our paperwork and that we have a path to citizenship etc. My wife on the other hand is like "if they want to kick us out, then fuck them". God knows what we'd actually do if it came to that though.

I saw that British drivers in the EU may have to exchange their UK drivers licences for licences in the EU country in which they live in order to drive in Europe after a no-deal Brexit, like starting the day after Brexit. I haven't seen whether that would apply to British drivers only in Europe on holiday, and how such people would be legally distinguished from British European residents. What a mess.

i enjoyed that post Matt.

im a negative bastard so i always felt keenly aware of people's xenophobia growing up (helps that I'm an pale, green eyed person with a scottish accent - so not who racist cabbies and such are expecting to be the issue of a brown skinned refuge - and have been treated to countless xenophobic, just between us whites, confidences over the years), so the result hasn't really changed my thoughts in that way. but as Noel mentions the stressful practical and legal complications for EU nationals is such a huge ramification. would personally prefer remain by hook or crook for the sake of those people.

I'm frankly kind of surprised you don't have to get a Spanish driver's license if you actually live in Spain?? I mean, EU schmee-u, they drive on entirely the other side of the road for one thing.

No if you're just visiting it's fine. Otherwise no one would be able to ever rent a car on holiday anywhere.

I dunno about Europeans. As an American I had one year from the start of our visa to exchange for a French license, which I wish I'd done but I didn't know then that we would be staying.

Matt articulated stuff that I'm admittedly eliding. I've said before that the main motivator for me voting Remain in the end was thinking about East European friends a d neighbours and not wanting to send the "fuck off" signal. The economics is largely arguable in my opinion.

I've been lolling at Brits resident in France complaining about the couple hundred euro cost of getting a carte de séjour post-brexit. like, for the rest of us it costs that much, why should you, after leaving the EU, have it any different? [hint: you won't]

I saw that British drivers in the EU may have to exchange their UK drivers licences for licences in the EU country in which they live in order to drive in Europe after a no-deal Brexit, like starting the day after Brexit. I haven't seen whether that would apply to British drivers only in Europe on holiday, and how such people would be legally distinguished from British European residents. What a mess.

― L'assie (Euler), Friday, February 15, 2019 12:48 PM (fifty-six minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

presumably the same way most states in the US handle british visitors, i.e. you can drive on your UK license if you're not a US resident. If you live here (definition of this varies by state, but in most states it's "'reside' for longer than X months" rather than a bright line related to your immigration status) you need to get a local license by taking the test. there is no enforcement of this by the police in my experience, but your auto insurance is invalid if you don't follow these rules, and any doubt is obviously going to be resolved in the insurance company's favor.

yes, it's a mess, but not in any practical way (compared to all the other messes created by brexit).

p.s. the NYS driving test is a joke.

I'm hearing that the French driving test is not a joke, and I have to pay $$$ to take 20 hrs of lessons in order to be able to take the dumb test. I only want a license to be able to drive in the countryside a couple times a year, I'm never gonna buy a car again obviously.

btw this thread's helped me decide that I should collect as many passports as I can & it looks like I'm eligible for the south american country where my dad was born & raised so thanks brexit for something

I think France's culture of steady, sensible driving needs to be maintained tbf

loool

highway tailgating is actually obligatory in france afaict

I mean I drove in the Chicagoland area for some years, France isn't significantly worse

I want to get a licence so I can rent a car and hunt long pig in britain this summer

really? there is a kind of aggressive lawlessness on the highway in France that doesn't begin to approach a place like Italy but which ime is fairly rare in the US. ym however, m indeed v

nv has iirc been to donegal u ppl got no stories to scare him

donegal is the only time I've ever driven on the left side of the road! wheee-oo it was like a video game

it wasnt you

everyone in Donegal drives like its a video game

:D :/

I know a little of Donegal and France and tbh French driving is scarier cos there's a lot more of them on the road

Altho I've only sat in the boot of the car going up the side of a mountain in Donnie

not the first person to be transported in Donegal in the boot of a car

those mountains in Tralee were amazing. I'd happily become an RA sleeper agent if they financed me a trip back there.

hiyooooo jim

I hope you didn't call it "Donnie" at any point when you were there

Loooooooooool Jim

Xp I do not ever but I'm tired and drunk and need of abbreviation

tírs

Always refer to the gaeltacht as gaelts tho

yeah? we always call them "summer students"

Best joke in Ulysses is on those lines

Anyhoo I saw two drivers stop in The middle of the roundabout round the Arc de Triomphe an exchange numbers in the middle of the road

Paris driving is another world. So’s Marseille. But out in the countryside or even on the autoroutes it’s not so bad.

Well it's ILX, we exaggerate for (not very) comic effect

Joking about gulags and liquidating the landed gentry is a deadly serious business imo, and shouldn't be treated lightly... Apart from on here!

It only took the bbc two and a half days more than everywhere else to cover the Williamson/China story., cos they finally realised most of the party despise Williamson, but still waited for permission to run any bad news.

That's FlyBMI fucked, so.

bmi had the best uniforms :(

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-UoqgHCeZ3Kc/T0-RTHerAII/AAAAAAAABvE/U7-wgcpgijE/s1600/BMI+FA.jpg

low sympathy rating tbh, but I suppose from environmental pov it won't mean there is suddenly less planes belching out greenhouse gases/pollutants, just some other operator filling the void.

is jason cowley alright
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2019/02/len-mccluskey-remainers-need-calm-down-and-back-corbyn

What do we think about the isis returnees case

it feels like that whole situation was constructed by the Have Your Say machine just so people could have their say tbh

I felt a strong jihad impulse against western imperialism myself at that age tbf, but my ugly hairy arse just wans't pretty enough to get groomed by anyone.

You have to admire the contortions of people who think 16 year olds shouldn’t be allowed to vote, but that 15 year olds are responsible for being groomed & abused by terrorists. Oh, and someone being a shit human being doesn’t mean either their human rights or citizenship are forfeit.

just realised what i'm nigglingly reminded of every time nick cohen tweets "me in the observer"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xtM8mb2Ocg

Jfc pic.twitter.com/k2gL5hXYA2

— Matt Zarb-Cousin (@mattzarb) January 26, 2019

Owen Jones just isn't a good interviewer. Interrupts and can't stay on topic. This "but surely you must see that?" line of questioning doesn't work.

Interrupting is everywhere so it must be an executive decision on the part of producers to introduce some kind of tension but how do viewers benefit from two people speaking at once, or constant interruption. Either give someone a foot pedal that mutes interruptions or let them finish

All post-Paxman bullshit I think. Interrupt to look like you're speaking truth to power but actually don't speak truth to power