"oh you don't get me I'm the end of the union": lol brexit is how we're all gonna die

RIP The Milquetoast I mean Malthouse Compromise.

In an interview with @theHouse_mag, business minister Richard Harrington:
* Says Tory eurosceptic MPs are 'traitors' who should quit and join Nigel Farage's new party.
* Says the Malthouse Compromise is 'fanciful nonsense'
* Slams PM's Brexit strategyhttps://t.co/IJHbguAIfg

— Kevin Schofield (@PolhomeEditor) February 14, 2019

looking forward to a round of stories tomorrow following JRM's insistence on QT that concentration camps are good actually

"the concentration camps that churchill used weren't that bad: the mortality rate was the same as found in glasgow"

uh I have some bad news for you about glasgow and imperial britain

geoff norcott. a comedian who is a tory. how fucking completely novel.

rachel johnson getting her tits out for remain now - 2nd deatherendum.

just a pale rip-off of Dr Victoria Bateman's performances

Isn't david peace writing a novel about geoff norcott

he's certainly humorless enough

I can find out?

I think a neo-noir set in the murky world of R4 comedy would be more one for that dad of spiderman twat!

Geoff Norcott actually uses that he is a Tory voting comedian as part of his performance schtick.

"I'm not your typical lefty comedian like your eltons, robinsons, baddiels etc... look here I'm a genuine anomaly "

"I'm well mad me"

unfortunately for him, being such a terminally unfunny mediocrity - his politics don't make any difference. fortunately for him he's pretty much the R4 house style and a decent career is assured.

somebody had to take up the mantle of Terry Alderton

at least he's quite a useful cautionary tale for the young 'uns: if you keep taking those steroids this fucking abominable flesh-knot on legs could be you.

YouGov found that if Lab backed 2nd referendum, its vote share amongst "Labour Leave" voters would drop by 20pts, but its vote share amongst "Labour Remain" voters would only increase by 4pts.

Net effect would be that Lab % wouldn't change at all. pic.twitter.com/Ruivg8GHOL

— Stats for Lefties (@LeftieStats) February 14, 2019

when put like that it makes u wonder if they shouldn’t start rolling the pitch for a potential 2nd ref sooner or later (to some extent their conference policy already does that I guess)

... except all the key marginals are leave.

because of the turd who co-owns them, I take YouGov with an even bigger pinch of salt than the rest - apart from during election conditions. but fuck knows anymore, is 2nd ref becoming a possibility now?

I think it might have to be a consideration now, but only as a vote between remaining and whatever deal is on offer, and must be called a ratification vote.

i feel like this parliament has utterly failed here, and the only way out is putting the question back to the voters either in the form of a GE or a referendum. it's so fucked!

best scenario
- long extension (ie kick into long grass extension and grind everyone down until we remain by default)

second best scenario is
- may deal passes
- DUP withdraw support
- GE
- LAB manifesto offers ratification referendum
- thereby motivates base and respects referendum
- ???
- fully-automated luxury communism

I'm okay with either of those, but the second won't happen without also having a long extension, is my impression.

i feel like this parliament has utterly failed here

yeah this can't be repeated enough really, it's a remarkable achievement by all involved

what's crazy about all of this is that actually none of what's being discussed touches on the future relationship w/the EU - it is ONLY about defining relations while we sort shit out. right? can you imagine the almighty fuckery involved once THAT gets going? i can't take it! honestly!!

I don't think I can stand any more of his wall-to-wall media onslaught on Jacob Rees-Mogg being an apologist for concentration camps... er, hold on.

well any healthy relationship should continuously be evolving you know xp

im not sure ive any idea what my ukilxors actually feel about brexit, its just struck me

only what they think about the tory/lab approaches to the machinations around it

i take it all but xyz are against

He's not for it either. Right?

afaict he doesnt take direct positions but 'afaict' includes my own impatience for reading very long posts about uk politics or why we should do things because of what some dead guy said once

the fault is certainly mine, like

is xyzzzz leave ?

- I voted remain
- 7/10 was a resonant message for me (probably closer to 6/10)
- I don’t want a second referendum (exc to the extent that it would help LAB win a GE)
- I am not “pro” brexit, ppl voted the way they voted and there’s been no material change in circs in the interim to necessitate asking again + a second ref if not done properly is a lot more risky than ppl let on

my assumption is that position applies to quite a lot of ppl who post itt

tbf JRM is amongst the top 3 most watched videos on the bbc website

Most watched

1 Huge ice ball stuck on eagle
2 Is this the world's fastest seven-year-old?
3 Rees-Mogg comments on concentration camps

not an above the line front page story tho

im not sure ive any idea what my ukilxors actually feel about brexit, its just struck me

Dyed in the wool pro-European. For all it’s flaws, since Maastricht we’ve had better laws and better government coming from Brussels than we’ve had from London. Being part of a federal whole with the ECJ and ECHR is a lot better than the unicameral centralised shit show that is Westminster. Being part of a bigger whole make sure us stronger and moderates our worst aspects. It’s a long way from perfect but far better than the alternative.

, ppl voted the way they voted and there’s been no material change in circs in the interim to necessitate asking again

this is the message im getting from a lot itt and its fair enough taken as a position in isolation

but it does imo v much set brexit apart from p much anything else important that ukilxors have an opinion on, the acceptance of the legitimacy of a majority opinion that is clearly wrong and shit (and the ref itself wasnt even set out in a way that ever *could* give this type of legitimacy to any ensuing result)

i find the meta justification of brexit interesting is i spose my point, and it does make me wonder whats different about membership of the eu vs yknow structural racism and grinding the poor to animal feed and other v popular opinions amongst the electorate etc

xp tks ed see id have assumed this was the threadview but perhaps weve long sinced moved into x-d chess mode and its all tactics and countermoves now

i have some sympathy for criticism of the eu from the left/organised-labour perspective but it seems far better to be in it and try to organise across national borders than it does to quit it entirely, not least because the brexit process is being managed by the most feckless and incompetent bunch of arseholes we've had in government for quite a while

parallel to that, as ed says, is that membership of the eu has in large part kept the worst parts of the uk in check when it comes to laws and recognising human rights

we're def better in than out imo

Yeah, I'm pretty close to Ed - it doesn't hurt that pretty much every time that I've heard a politician (mostly UK but some IE) say "Well Brussels made us do it", I've been on Brussels' side. (xp as bg says)

(also also it's of course different for the Irish, EU money paid for a lot of good roads and it's the first solid international step we've took as a nation among equals and that's not counting the North)

a lot more risky than ppl let on

Compared to what? has to be the question, though.

"they fixed the roads" elevated to the highest possible level there!

voted remain, but would vote leave now. I used to have a "don't give the far right a stabbed-in-the-back story" type 2ndRef position. but genuinely don't give a fuck atm, and have a jaded, angry, completely incoherent Fuck the EU + fuck Alistair Campbell, Adonis, Lammy et al sort of nihilistic fuck em' all and watch the world burn outlook - which probably isn't good, but where I'm honestly at.

It's a shorthand - but then the roads aren't always shortcuts.

sometimes i feel that way calz and sometimes i swing towards the opposite, that it's a moronic project championed by the very worst elements, accomplishes nothing, billions flushed down the toilet, was based on xenophobia, lies and probably illegal behaviour and those things are true regardless of who supports a second referendum or whatever

xp I'm the opposite, don't really care how they stop Brexit, if it damages "democracy" I couldn't give a toss really, not like it's not already a sham. rather side with "centrists" than fascists, feudalists and disaster capitalists

damaging democracy is not just some nebulous term tho - if ‘stopping’ brexit is not done in a way which has majority consent it will flip our politics on its head for a generation

as it is it’s going to poison the discourse for years to come - and that’s with it being (presumably) enacted

I mean I know we’re a nation of supine cunts but that could change

I didn' t vote in last ref because I didn't care enough either way. I mean I would rather the UK leave I guess but suspected the hassle/ money and time spent doing it wouldn't be worth it. I'm neither a " oh the UK is so fucked now we're all going to starve" or a " Britain will be great again" type. It almost feels as if it has nothing to do with me in that I doubt my life will be better or worse in 20 years time whether UK is in or out of the EU.

our politics has been flipped on its head for a generation anyway tbf - maybe only a generation at best

They fixed the roads is important to Scotland, too (or parts of it). A lot of rural road improvements were funded by the ERDF (incl the 30+ miles single track road to get to my mum's village). ERDF also supported a lot of Scottish start-ups through co-investment, for example.

voted Remain, against 2nd Ref for all the reasons stated above including the vindictive class/tribal politics ones, have come to the conclusion that the UK's relationship to the EU has always been so dysfunctional and unwilling that it would've been better for both sides if some variant of a Norway-esque deal had always been in place

I may be a bit more twitchy about this than the average person re medicine shortages. but the majority of people in this country are cunts and they can all go fuck themselves imo