US Politics February 2019: This is one of the great losers of all time.

it is clearly trump's fault.

clear things have a way of being muddied when filtered through a dozen days of spin cycle and media blarg. the dysfunction and pain will be very clear, but the game of blame-shifting is a tug-of-war. if trump decided to say "I was prepared to sign the bill with the $1.6 billion, much as I hated it" then odds are the mushy middle would see the democrats as the intransigent party.

perhaps, but imo in the history of government shutdowns, the republicans are almost always seen, correctly, as the party to blame.

i do know one thing, though - if enough democrats agree to this $1.6 billion wall compromise to pass the bill, then that's the end. they lost. and as much as the seasoned political veterans of ilx seem to think otherwise, the republicans will be back next year with a demand for more money for the wall. and what will democrats say then?

completely otm along with Doctor Casino's posts on this subject back in January

They'd say "no", then wait to see what the other side does.

they'd say no? how would they say no? how would they respond when republicans (rightfully, for once) point out that they supported spending on the bill in feb 2019?

on the wall, that is

and ironically, the only way, in that situation, that democrats could say "no" to more border wall spending in 2020 is if their base pushed them to refuse to spend the money. which is what should be happening RIGHT NOW, when you (and others) think it's ok to compromise on it!

This is not rocket science. They could say $1.6 billion was the full amount they were prepared to spend and that they would have preferred to spend zero, but had to compromise to keep the government functioning.

leave the political calculations and the compromises to the politicians. that's their job. it's not the job of citizens to guess at what the compromise will be and preemptively accept it. it's our job to think about what is actually RIGHT and push our leaders to do it

Karl, tell it to Congress. We know your position. They don't. My own rep is a blue dog democrat useless piece of crap on this stuff and I intend to back anyone left of him who tries to primary him in 2020. He knows it, too. I told him.

when democratic politicians look around them right now, testing the waters on a potential compromise, they should be aware that the people that voted for them strongly oppose the wall. it doesn't help when they look around and their supporters are like "well, i guess this is the best we could do, yeah it's ok, go get 'em next year"

that's their job.

right. it is their job. they are doing it. now you do yours.

ok. part of my job is convincing people on the left not to be ok with compromising with racism.

This is not rocket science. They could say $1.6 billion was the full amount they were prepared to spend and that they would have preferred to spend zero, but had to compromise to keep the government functioning.

let me drop some rocket science-level political tactics on you - then the republicans would threaten another government shutdown, again, unless they get their $1.6 billion, again.

anyway, i'm going to do everyone a favor and make like a tree and walk my dog. if i see any left-leaning politicians out there i'll be sure to update them on what i said in this thread

then the republicans would threaten another government shutdown, again, unless they get their $1.6 billion, again.

to which the democrats would say, "well, it's your funeral" and they'd be right.

you are positing that this is a all-or-nothing situation and once they spend dollar one they are somehow morally obligated to capitulate forever. that isn't how it works. but you are otm about it being the job of voters to push them to do what is right and their job to figure out how to ride all the cross-currents that come with the position.

i'll be sure to update them on what i said in this thread

they have phones

https://i.imgur.com/y0NyMmK.jpg

Very nice, except that that arrow points to the right.

McConnell is smart enough to immediately put a stake in the ground at that $1.6 billion figure

Trump rejected $1.6 billion in December. Why offer it again?

heat check

Trump rejected $1.6 billion in December. Why offer it again?

― The Very Fugly Caterpillar (sic),

If he refuses (again), he and the GOP look even worse

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPmTp9up26w

not sure how i’m ending up with km but he is right and i’m thinking this is where dems should aggressively try to flip the table on him and say you get 0 for a wall, you will formalize protctions for dreamers somehow, and you will authorize corrective compensation for those workers affected by the shutdown, with the cost coming from some bullshit he’s trying to expand. I guess im insane but i’d try to make him eat shit.

The Dems should just be very specific and loud about all the things they *do* want, so that when Trump demands money for a wall the public knows exactly what he is turning down, including many programs and plans (inc. security options, sure) that people like. Then it won't be them turning down Trump, it will be Trump turning down all the things they are offering.

The pitiful, transparent defensiveness on display again. Also, the schedule story's been out there for close to a week, and this was the best he could come up with?

The media was able to get my work schedule, something very easy to do, but it should have been reported as a positive, not negative. When the term Executive Time is used, I am generally working, not relaxing. In fact, I probably work more hours than almost any past President.....

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) February 10, 2019

He's defensive cos "executive time" is code for "boning"

No it’s not. He’s watching tv.

They make that kind of TV

another volunteering at the oval office. everyone keeps asking me if they can fuck the tv. buddy, they wont even let me fuck it

watching tv and, i presume, napping.

"Nappin' and Fappin'" (f. Killer Mike)

fun detail at the end of the NYT story on the breakdown of border wall/shutdown negotiations:

If Mr. Trump declares a national emergency to build the wall, critics are expected to file suit in court to block construction and halt any funds shifted to the project. Democratic lawmakers, particularly in the House, are also preparing legislation that would limit the president’s ability to do so.

To stave off a court challenge, one proposal circulating among some White House officials, including those close to Stephen Miller, the president’s top domestic policy adviser, is to claim that the wall would be built to protect the more than 5,000 active-duty troops now operating near the southwestern border or deploying there soon.

And Saturday, following the announcement of the Massachusetts Democrat's presidential campaign, Trump tweeted, "See you on the campaign TRAIL, Liz!"— seen as a reference to the Trail of Tears.

jesus christ, i didn't even think of this when i read that tweet

monster

i'm not even one of these people jumping for people to resign over offensive comments, but this is so hateful

yeah, that was clearly his intent

srsly can he just murder-suicide one or two of his idiot kids already

i took it as a generic "on the trail" western reference (which is offensive enough in context), but you guys might be right.

especially because he was referencing little bighorn and things last week. he's definitely trying to needle her with american indian references

it's possible he doesn't really know what the trail of tears actually was, but it doesn't really matter—he's such trash

the administration has made it a point for two years to make love to Andrew Jackson's corpse. I'm sure Trail of Tears was on a Powerpoint slide prepared by Jared in June 2017.

i think gummy is right tbh, if only because i cannot imagine trump remembering that the Trail of Tears was even a thing, versus having seen movies with native peoples following "trails" or "Indian Trail Road" being in the names of real estate developments for which he was shown colorful large-format illustrations

hell, he might have been glancing at jackson as he tweeted

https://i.imgur.com/oPFaLq8.jpg

I'm sure he knows about the Trail of Tears.

Trump is staunch admirer of Andrew Jackson, the president who signed the Indian Removal Act that instigated the forced westward march of the Trail of Tears. A portrait of Jackson hangs in Trump's Oval Office, and Steve Bannon once gave the president a reading list full of biographies of his fellow populist leader.

i think he knows the phrase "trail of tears" and was thinking about it, honestly, even if he doesn't know exactly what it was. as with so much with this guy though, i end up feeling like

https://media0.giphy.com/media/it8307a0XxlVS/giphy.gif

Last night I read that Trump Jr. called out the racism in the TRAIL tweet by retweeting a critic. Hopefully that really happened.

i understand the inclination to assume that his actions are motivated by him being incredibly dumb and ignorant, but i think after watching him for a few years we can safely assume that he is driven even more by his racism

i would like him to no longer be part of my life

steven miller who prob composes half of trump’s tweets and is also reified hate def know what trail means in the context of warren

Donald Trump Jr. expressed delighted at his father’s latest racist tweet. He posted a photo of it to Instagram, and, seemingly determined to one-up his dad's bigotry, captioned it with a slur against Native peoples. "Savage!!!!" wrote Trump Jr. "Love my President.”